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Dirac Live Bass Management?

graystreet

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According to @Flak (who works for Dirac), Dirac will assist you for a license transfer if you sell your AVR.

They will do the same if your AVR failed and get a replacement. But license are not transferable from one unit to another.
This is helpful to know. I was under the impression that their license agreement does not state this. Possibly it has been updated?
Being able to transfer the license to the next owner of the receiver is helpful to know. Being unable to move it to your next receiver is still a big hit, unfortunately, given that the resale market is likely pretty low for the license on used older equipment.
 

graystreet

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I confirm, having informed myself and having done so with Dirac licence, that it can be resold, as established by the European court.

Unfortunately, the fact that the license is not reassignable to another unit implies the sale of everything together.

In my opinion, AVRs are disadvantageous compared to a PC (with Dirac) + multichannel DAC + amps setup.
If one wants Dolby then he can get a Mac mini.
Your opinion makes sense. Is there a thread somewhere that would show a decent PC (with Dirac) + multichannel DAC + amp setup to achieve DLBC in a 2.2 living room setup? I do wonder if Dirac is a bit overkill for this sort of a basic setup (two Arendal 1961 towers or monitors + two SVS micro subs or similar), and if I can achieve fairly good room correction with the bass component in a more cost effective way.
 

Davide

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Your opinion makes sense. Is there a thread somewhere that would show a decent PC (with Dirac) + multichannel DAC + amp setup to achieve DLBC in a 2.2 living room setup? I do wonder if Dirac is a bit overkill for this sort of a basic setup (two Arendal 1961 towers or monitors + two SVS micro subs or similar), and if I can achieve fairly good room correction with the bass component in a more cost effective way.
I honestly don't know if there are any threads referring to these setups.
Of course, however, you can consult the threads of the related components (essentially DACs and amps).
As a multi-channel DAC, the choice is quite limited, but the products that are available are excellent, such as the Motu Ultralite Mk5 or the Topping DM7 (which has a remote and acts as a preamp).
For a 2.2 setup, the Motu M4 could also be fine but you have to adjust the volume from the PC... it could be inconvenient.
As for amplifiers you are spoiled for choice... and you won't need an integrated. Get a class D with enough power and you're good to go.
For the PC or Mac there is nothing to consider, one is as good as the other...
Regarding DLBC for setup 2.2. I currently have it, and as expensive as it is, it's hard to get similar good integration between subs and mains with manual or cheaper systems.
 

phoenixdogfan

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Your opinion makes sense. Is there a thread somewhere that would show a decent PC (with Dirac) + multichannel DAC + amp setup to achieve DLBC in a 2.2 living room setup? I do wonder if Dirac is a bit overkill for this sort of a basic setup (two Arendal 1961 towers or monitors + two SVS micro subs or similar), and if I can achieve fairly good room correction with the bass component in a more cost effective way.
I have it and use it to integrate my two SVS SB 2000's with my LS 50 Metas. I do run a 2.2 and also run a 5.1 with DLBC. Works great for both.
 

graystreet

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I honestly don't know if there are any threads referring to these setups.
Of course, however, you can consult the threads of the related components (essentially DACs and amps).
As a multi-channel DAC, the choice is quite limited, but the products that are available are excellent, such as the Motu Ultralite Mk5 or the Topping DM7 (which has a remote and acts as a preamp).
For a 2.2 setup, the Motu M4 could also be fine but you have to adjust the volume from the PC... it could be inconvenient.
As for amplifiers you are spoiled for choice... and you won't need an integrated. Get a class D with enough power and you're good to go.
For the PC or Mac there is nothing to consider, one is as good as the other...
Regarding DLBC for setup 2.2. I currently have it, and as expensive as it is, it's hard to get similar good integration between subs and mains with manual or cheaper systems.
It is interesting that most of these multi channel DAC setups do not support ARC eARC volume/power control, but I can see that they are not video source focused. It is so nice to use my NVIDIA Shield TV Pro remote for everything at the moment simply because it's plugged into my AVR, and when I press the power button the TV, Shield, and AVR all all ready to go. I'll miss that feature if I move away from the AVR world.
 

AudioScience Enthusiast

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I plan on buying the DLBC for my Pioneer LX-805 on Black Friday, but my unit is currently being RMA'ed.

Usually, is the DLBC license tied to one specific unit only or my user account? Do I need to do a license transfer later once I receive the new unit?
 

Flak

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I plan on buying the DLBC for my Pioneer LX-805 on Black Friday, but my unit is currently being RMA'ed.

Usually, is the DLBC license tied to one specific unit only or my user account? Do I need to do a license transfer later once I receive the new unit?
The license can be reassigned to another unit or owner, provided it's the same model, by emailng [email protected]
 
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soerenssen

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I honestly don't know if there are any threads referring to these setups.
Of course, however, you can consult the threads of the related components (essentially DACs and amps).
As a multi-channel DAC, the choice is quite limited, but the products that are available are excellent, such as the Motu Ultralite Mk5 or the Topping DM7 (which has a remote and acts as a preamp).
For a 2.2 setup, the Motu M4 could also be fine but you have to adjust the volume from the PC... it could be inconvenient.
As for amplifiers you are spoiled for choice... and you won't need an integrated. Get a class D with enough power and you're good to go.
For the PC or Mac there is nothing to consider, one is as good as the other...
Regarding DLBC for setup 2.2. I currently have it, and as expensive as it is, it's hard to get similar good integration between subs and mains with manual or cheaper systems.
Slightly off-topic: How do you connect/route the Wiim to the MOTU with DLBC in between?
I have a Wiim too and and this would be a nice alternative to Audirvana/Volumio/Jriver (I don't have any local storage with music) but I was a bit worried about the lack of (remote) volume control and the lack of Tidal Connect (on PC I found a workaround using WDM).
 

juliangst

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Slightly off-topic: How do you connect/route the Wiim to the MOTU with DLBC in between?
I have a Wiim too and and this would be a nice alternative to Audirvana/Volumio/Jriver (I don't have any local storage with music) but I was a bit worried about the lack of (remote) volume control and the lack of Tidal Connect (on PC I found a workaround using WDM).
You would need to connect the digital out of the Wiim to your computer using some kind of coax/ toslink to usb adapter.

Then you use a program like Loopback (MacOS) or Voicemeeter (Windows) to wire your optical input to your output device (in this case: virtual sound card Dirac).
Dirac itself will output to the output device you selected.

So not really that convenient. I would try to stream everything from the PC/Mac and avoid those extra steps.
 

Davide

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Slightly off-topic: How do you connect/route the Wiim to the MOTU with DLBC in between?
I have a Wiim too and and this would be a nice alternative to Audirvana/Volumio/Jriver (I don't have any local storage with music) but I was a bit worried about the lack of (remote) volume control and the lack of Tidal Connect (on PC I found a workaround using WDM).
Wiim digital out to Ultralite digital in, then use VST host (I use Element) to insert Dirac processor and route the output to Ultralite analog out. Preferably using ASIO driver.
Spotify has fixed sample rate (44.1) so no problem using the Ultralite (that doesn't switch internal sample rate automatically).
 

soerenssen

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Wiim digital out to Ultralite digital in, then use VST host (I use Element) to insert Dirac processor and route the output to Ultralite analog out. Preferably using ASIO driver.
Spotify has fixed sample rate (44.1) so no problem using the Ultralite (that doesn't switch internal sample rate automatically).
Do you use Spotify Connect on Windows or can you configure ASIO driver for Jriver as an output audio device of Spotify, before the DLBC processing? I'm planning to do something similar, but with Tidal/Qobuz.
 

Davide

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Do you use Spotify Connect on Windows or can you configure ASIO driver for Jriver as an output audio device of Spotify, before the DLBC processing? I'm planning to do something similar, but with Tidal/Qobuz.
Spotify is streamed from Wiim.
Windows simply run the VST host with Dirac plugin.
 

soerenssen

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Wiim digital out to Ultralite digital in, then use VST host (I use Element) to insert Dirac processor and route the output to Ultralite analog out. Preferably using ASIO driver.
Spotify has fixed sample rate (44.1) so no problem using the Ultralite (that doesn't switch internal sample rate automatically).
Are you using MacOS or Windows for Element? Did you try Voicemeeter Banana mentioned by @juliangst by any chance?
I am considering getting the Flex HT and route input devices coming from the TV (acting as a HDMI hub) via optical and my Wiim Pro via digital coax, via the Dirac processor, to the Flex HT's analog outputs. Do you think it could work with the Flex HT? Unfortunately I don't see many people using such a setup, I guess mainly because it's only the Okto and the M4/Mk5 with similar input capabilities.
 
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Davide

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Are you using MacOS or Windows for Element? Did you try Voicemeeter Banana mentioned by @juliangst by any chance?
I am considering getting the Flex HT and route input devices coming from the TV (acting as a HDMI hub) via optical and my Wiim Pro via digital coax, via the Dirac processor, to the Flex HT's analog outputs. Do you think it could work with the Flex HT? Unfortunately I don't see many people using such a setup, I guess mainly because it's only the Okto and the M4/Mk5 with similar input capabilities.
I use Windows 11 with Element.
Never tried Voicemeter, but seems unsuitable for my case...
However, you can connect the TV optical out to WiiM in and pass through WiiM optical out to Flex in, so you don't have to switch between inputs. Also WiiM seems to reclock the optical input signal with its low jitter clock.
Unfortunately I discovered this feature late and got the WiiM Mini instead of the Pro... in fact I use a Y splitter.
 

soerenssen

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I use Windows 11 with Element.
Never tried Voicemeter, but seems unsuitable for my case...
However, you can connect the TV optical out to WiiM in and pass through WiiM optical out to Flex in, so you don't have to switch between inputs. Also WiiM seems to reclock the optical input signal with its low jitter clock.
Unfortunately I discovered this feature late and got the WiiM Mini instead of the Pro... in fact I use a Y splitter.
The WiiM won't be able to pass 5.1 to the Flex, the Flex cannot decode the 5.1 signal coming from the TV and cannot pass it to the PC to decode it either (no bidirectional USB audio support, unlike the original Flex had). One has to add a cheap Dolby Decoder to the chain. I think for HDMI sources an AVR is still the best / most convenient solution out there (more channels, Atmos support, you can plug everything into the AVR, etc.) and Audyssey as DRC might be just fine for that purpose.

For music, I would get rid of any unnecessary components in the chain and just get a Mac Mini M1 or Mele Quieter to run Dirac+DLBC. This would allow me to have a fully balanced chain for music and no Dirac downsampling to 48KHz. I would also stream Tidal from the Mac/PC instead of the WiiM to get rid of optical/toslink, but I don't know if it's technically possible to remotely control playback and volume, without having to buy a Roon or Audirvana subscription. I don't know if Quboz or Amazon has a connect feature on desktop.

I have a question about Dirac+DLBC: assuming that the weakest component in the chain has a SINAD that is still beyond the threshold of audibility, what difference would it make what electronics you have? Looking at @amirm's chart, seems like the lowest SINAD component is usually the power amp. I can see a lot of debate and subjective opinions about DACs, pre-amps, opamps, power amps, etc. having a sonic signature. For example, according to Audiophonices, Purifi amps have more musicality and better lower extension than Hypex, and according to Apollon one opamp sounds different than another). But once you engage Dirac or Audyssey, they will potentially change that sonic signature immediately and you can even tell the software how to change the sonic signature (tilting the curve). So the only important factor beyond 85dB SINAD remains only the speaker and the room and their interaction, right? I have KEF coaxial speakers and they react well to EQ. Having a good basic understanding of this would make it a lot easier (and less stressful, honestly) to ignore noise and just focus on your room/speakers instead of electronics.
 

Davide

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The WiiM won't be able to pass 5.1 to the Flex, the Flex cannot decode the 5.1 signal coming from the TV and cannot pass it to the PC to decode it either (no bidirectional USB audio support, unlike the original Flex had). One has to add a cheap Dolby Decoder to the chain. I think for HDMI sources an AVR is still the best / most convenient solution out there (more channels, Atmos support, you can plug everything into the AVR, etc.) and Audyssey as DRC might be just fine for that purpose.

For music, I would get rid of any unnecessary components in the chain and just get a Mac Mini M1 or Mele Quieter to run Dirac+DLBC. This would allow me to have a fully balanced chain for music and no Dirac downsampling to 48KHz. I would also stream Tidal from the Mac/PC instead of the WiiM to get rid of optical/toslink, but I don't know if it's technically possible to remotely control playback and volume, without having to buy a Roon or Audirvana subscription. I don't know if Quboz or Amazon has a connect feature on desktop.

I have a question about Dirac+DLBC: assuming that the weakest component in the chain has a SINAD that is still beyond the threshold of audibility, what difference would it make what electronics you have? Looking at @amirm's chart, seems like the lowest SINAD component is usually the power amp. I can see a lot of debate and subjective opinions about DACs, pre-amps, opamps, power amps, etc. having a sonic signature. For example, according to Audiophonices, Purifi amps have more musicality and better lower extension than Hypex, and according to Apollon one opamp sounds different than another). But once you engage Dirac or Audyssey, they will potentially change that sonic signature immediately and you can even tell the software how to change the sonic signature (tilting the curve). So the only important factor beyond 85dB SINAD remains only the speaker and the room and their interaction, right? I have KEF coaxial speakers and they react well to EQ. Having a good basic understanding of this would make it a lot easier (and less stressful, honestly) to ignore noise and just focus on your room/speakers instead of electronics.
Sorry, I didn't realize you were talking about multi-channel audio.
In that case I think buying an AVR is the best solution.
Otherwise a Mac mini should support Dolby decoding, but only from running applications, not from external inputs.
But I'm not very knowledgeable about it.

However, from personal experience, electronics account for a maximum of 20% of audio quality.
Of course the room and speakers are more important.
 

juliangst

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For example, according to Audiophonices, Purifi amps have more musicality and better lower extension than Hypex, and according to Apollon one opamp sounds different than another)
That’s just marketing talk. The stock OP amps are audibly transparent. Some after market OP amps actually measure worse (but still should be audibly transparent).
I would say that all well engineered electronics of the last 20 years will be audibly transparent.

But once you engage Dirac or Audyssey, they will potentially change that sonic signature immediately and you can even tell the software how to change the sonic signature (tilting the curve).

Room correction software won’t change the sonic signature. It will actually restore the sonic signature of your speakers because it reduces room effects by applying filters. You can of course slightly adjust the frequency target response in Dirac but you don’t have to.

Just keep in mind that you only correct below the transition frequency of your room. Above that you don’t really correct modal effects of the room anymore but errors of the speaker‘s frequency reponse.
 
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