dCS threatens with a 7-figure lawsuit over a review

[raif71]

Neither are my bathroom habits. Why are you entitled to my private communications with others? Your interest should be in the objective review information you get.

Unless it's a bathroom gear review so the habitual behavior of reviewer using said gear should be transparent ... I digress

 

[pseudoid]

That's it!
I am never going to buy another new audio product, ever again.
Such traveshamockery in the industry makes me wish I was a member of an emotional-support group.
I've had enough!

 

[DOuG pRATt]

Coping this from Head-Fi. Text is from the letter DCS sent. Clearly a threat to sue.

View attachment 381112

The company would have to reveal financial statements with past sales figures. I assume a small outfit like that is privately held, and would rather not disclose that information.

 

[tomtoo]

Please could someone (with a legal backround ) explain me the difference of a review and my personal impression of a product?

So if i say: That bmw 318 is a peace of shit from my point of view. The risk of a lawsuit from bmw is high??


Something is very wrong in this world, and it gets more wrong from day to day.

 

[RoyRoyRoy]

This is a basic example of poor conflict resolution.

If one person disagreed with the other, they should've just picked up the phone and talked to them, instead of the emailing. It's amazing what can be solved by humanizing the conflict. This whole thing could've been resolved in minutes. I am not privy to the mechanics, but email is generally a poor method to resolve conflict, because most people are terrible at writing - myself included.

I say this having worked in management positions (I am NOT a laywer) dealing with hundreds of lawyers as my clients. This should've never made it this far. I am also explicitly going to state I have no idea of detailed timelines and of who said what, and only watched the brief video. That's all I'm going to say about this topic.

 

[Human Bass]

 

[TonyJZX]

looks like LMG picked this up along with some of the other big hitters

kind of over if the internet turns against dcs but then a small boutique and their clients may be immune to internet backlash

think of it as if the internet goes against mcintosh or wilson

there's enough zombies out there that will always supp at the teat

 

[DOuG pRATt]

The most relevant legal precedent for this is probably Bose vs. Consumer Reports, and Bose lost.

Stereophile gets gear from companies and has direct contact with them to get such feedback. I do the same when companies send me products. But when an owner wants his gear tested, I don't go chasing companies as in almost every case they don't answer me. If we are not important enough to care about, then it shouldn't matter what we do or say. They can't have it both ways. Stereophile does not operate this way so the comparison is not valid.

As I said above, in case of what we do, companies need to run the same tests and publish them. Or at least something close to it. That way, i can cross check my results against theirs. I can then either contact them, or post their measurements in the review indicating discrepancy.

Finally note that many companies have a policy to not comment on social media.

Reading tests of long-discontinued equipment is both fun and useful for those who have an interest in used gear. Without much or any concern the manufacturer will sue, assuming it's still in business.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

Please could someone (with a legal backround ) explain me the difference of a review and my personal impression of a product?

A review can be just your personal impression. It can also go over facts about the product. Facts are objective. Best to get them right. Personal impressions are subjective/objective. Best to get the objective parts right

So if i say: That bmw 318 is a peace of shit from my point of view. The risk of a lawsuit from bmw is high??

Probably not. Not much objective substance

 

[Hatto]

I really don't understand why overpriced snake oil manufacturers are so scared and threatened by objective reviews. Only sane and intelligent people care about objective performance of hi-fi equipment, who are not even tangential to the customer base of these of these scammers to begin with.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

I really don't understand why overpriced snake oil manufacturers are so scared and threatened by objective reviews. Only sane and intelligent people care about objective performance of hi-fi equipment, who are not even tangential to the customer base of these of these scammers to begin with.

They are far more afraid of the subjective reviews. Those reviews resonate with their potential customers.

 

[Hatto]

On a positive note, I applaud headphones.com for cutting their ties with dCS and publicly announcing their decision with proper reasoning; THAT'S how you treat bullies, NOT by removing your reviews like a coward.

 

[amirm]

I really don't understand why overpriced snake oil manufacturers are so scared and threatened by objective reviews. Only sane and intelligent people care about objective performance of hi-fi equipment, who are not even tangential to the customer base of these of these scammers to begin with.

The review in question has good bit of subjective assessments. And you would be amazed how the vacuum of objective information has led a lot of rational people into making such buying decisions.

 

[Tranquility Bass]

I really don't understand why overpriced snake oil manufacturers are so scared and threatened by objective reviews. Only sane and intelligent people care about objective performance of hi-fi equipment, who are not even tangential to the customer base of these of these scammers to begin with.

Because it's the magic fairy dust they are charging you for and that can't be objectively measured apparently

 

[ChrisMag2099]

There’s a dCS dealer in Bellevue, WA. Perhaps they could arrange a setup with @amirm, test the product and let it take its rightful place on the graph. No questions about proper setup. Just the facts… with the pricing beside it.

https://www.definitive.com/our-brands

And, like you say, reserve maybe Post 3 for manufacturer response (Post 2 is typically reserved for @AdamG to post specs).

I have low confidence this proposal will come to pass…

There's zero chance Definitive Audio would get involved in the middle of this mess. What would they have to gain from it?

 

[Chrispy]

There's zero chance Definitive Audio would get involved in the middle of this mess. What would they have to gain from it?

They sell that sort of stuff/brands, definitely wouldn't expect them to go against themselves.

 

[Hatto]

The review in question has good bit of subjective assessments. And you would be amazed how the vacuum of objective information has led a lot of rational people into making such buying decisions.

I wouldn't call anyone who would pay over $12k for a basic signal processing device a "rational person" in this day and age, but maybe that's just me; difference of perspectives I presume.

 

[Chrispy]

I wouldn't call anyone who would pay over $12k for a basic signal processing device in this day and age, but maybe that's just me; difference of perspectives I presume.

You wouldn't call them on a phone or did you leave something out?

 

[alexanderino]

Response from dCS:

A response to recent claims regarding dCS

dCS has been made aware of two videos regarding recent communications between dCS and GoldenSound, which relate to a review of the dCS Bartók Headphone DAC. Having watched both videos we feel it is important to clarify a number of details and provide a response to some of the questions raised...

dcs.community

Torben

For the purposes of documentation, accessibility, archival, and transparency, a screenshot of the page is attached, and the text reproduced below :

A response to recent claims regarding dCS​

davo45 (David Steven dCS: Managing Director)​

dCS has been made aware of two videos regarding recent communications between dCS and GoldenSound, which relate to a review of the dCS Bartók Headphone DAC.

Having watched both videos we feel it is important to clarify a number of details and provide a response to some of the questions raised by our community.

Firstly, there was no threat of litigation in the letter sent May 2024 from our legal representative to GoldenSound. The word litigation was not used in the correspondence to GoldenSound and all dCS asked for in the letter was for GoldenSound to correct any false statements in the review and notify readers and listeners of these corrected statements. The deadline for GoldenSound to respond to dCS was also waived by me as I sought to resolve this constructively and privately.

dCS has never tried to restrain accurate and factual reviews of dCS products and we believe that all reviewers are free to express their opinions. We would never ask someone to retract or take down an accurate review on the basis that we did not agree with their opinion or views.

We have supported independent reviewers for over three decades, providing products to journalists, magazines and content creators in multiple countries.

We welcome impartial, factual reviews and measurements, and we believe these are a vital source of information for audio enthusiasts worldwide.

Our typical process – one that is not unusual in audio – is to send sample review products to a reviewer directly or through one of our authorised distributors.

This means that dCS and/or our authorised distributors can be on hand to ensure the product is setup and functioning correctly and answer any questions a reviewer might have. Often we will invite reviewers to visit our factory and meet the engineering team if they desire, but this is not a prerequisite.

Often reviews are sent by the media outlet to the manufacturer for fact checking prior to publication. This is usually only done to ensure that all technical information regarding the product, such as details of specific features or specifications, is correct and up to date. We do not attempt to edit subjective elements or opinions – and would only request changes if there are factual inaccuracies that we feel could cause confusion or mislead consumers.

In December 2021, GoldenSound [Cameron Oatley] posted a review of the dCS Bartók Headphone DAC.

The Bartók used in this review was not sourced from dCS or an authorised distributor and no assistance was given with setup or configuration before or during this review.

In August 2022, GoldenSound contacted dCS to ask for a loan of a dCS Lina Network DAC, Master Clock and Headphone Amplifier for review.

dCS then responded in September 2022 to Thank GoldenSound for the enquiry but explain that the original Bartók review had caused a lot of confusion amongst dCS owners and audiophiles and we would like the opportunity to meet, discuss and correct inaccuracies in this review before working on any future reviews.

GoldenSound replied and dCS provided a written breakdown of some of the specific inaccuracies in the review, along with an explanation of why they were misleading and/or inaccurate. Again an invite to the dCS factory and to meet with the team was offered.

In October 2022, GoldenSound apologised for the late reply to dCS and wrote that he sincerely appreciated our constructive feedback, expressing the view that this was not something many manufacturers would take the time to do.

In late September 2022, GoldenSound joined headphones.com as a content creator. headphones.com are an online retailer of headphone electronics and headphones.

A number of offers from dCS to both GoldenSound and headphones.com to meet and/or visit the dCS team in the UK were either postponed, not accepted or not taken up.

In addition to this we were made aware of a voice note made by GoldenSound within a WhatsApp group. This appeared to contain a false and unfounded claim that dCS had been misleading consumers. In the audio clip that we were alerted to, GoldenSound said (referring to dCS) “It is possible the DAC does DSP or processing differently when there is an external clock attached, and that makes the difference. It would still be making an improvement to the Lina DAC when you do that, but it’s not a genuine difference because of an improvement in the clock signal, it’s something that they would have constructed to make it so that when you use the Lina DAC with the Lina Clock it operates in a better way”.

GoldenSound claims that the specific clip we were alerted to had been edited. The audio that was presented to us appeared to claim that dCS is misleading customers on the operation of clock circuitry within dCS DACs by carrying out DSP (digital signal processing, in this context presumably oversampling, noise shaping, filtering) which produces a sonically inferior result. Then when the DAC detects a master clock, such as the Lina Clock, has been connected, it switches to using DSP which does not produce this intentionally inferior result. The implication here is that dCS is knowingly and intentionally deceiving customers on the technical performance and benefits of using master clocks in order to sell more master clocks to customers. We contacted GoldenSound and headphones.com to refute this in October 2023.

Headphones.com explained to us that the messages in question were not intended to be made public and they worried that retracting or removing them would only amplify the message. We did not take further action at this point.

On March 3rd 2024 GoldenSound then announced they had collaborated with a DAC manufacturer to create the WANDLA – Goldensound Edition DAC. This product has similar functionality to dCS digital to analogue converters. See WANDLA - GoldenSound Edition (ferrum.audio). A spokesperson from this DAC manufacturer appears in GoldenSound’s latest YouTube video covering dCS and GoldenSound makes reference to having a paid affiliation with this DAC manufacturer in his latest video.

In May 2024, after we had made multiple attempts to discuss inaccuracies in more depth and have the review corrected, my US colleague instructed legal representatives to make contact with GoldenSound, and request that the previously published reviews be revised to make them accurate. A timestamped list of inaccuracies was supplied to GoldenSound and upon receiving this information I received a direct message from GoldenSound in May 2024.

I replied personally to GoldenSound, explaining that I was open to meeting and coming to a resolution on this situation. I reiterated that in no way was dCS trying to restrain in any way accurate reviews of dCS products, and stated that if you do not like dCS products, that is fine. You are certainly free to express your opinions. I also requested that he ensure his reviews and opinions are accurate and factual and explained that to the extent that those reviews have been based on inaccurate information, I would need him to correct those statements for the benefit of his audience. I would like to point out that once we had initiated these communications I personally waived any deadline for GoldenSound to action. I continued to request a meeting (virtual or in person) so this matter could be resolved.

I offered several dates and flexibility for GoldenSound and his representatives to meet and discuss a way forward. This sadly did not happen. To date, and over two months from the date of this legal letter, dCS remains open to a virtual or in person meeting with GoldenSound and his representatives. As discussed previously there is no pending litigation or lawsuit and since the letter was issued in May no escalation or further action has been taken on the dCS side as we have remained committed to correcting the inaccuracies and moving on.

I must also address comments made by one of my colleagues towards GoldenSound via email. There is no place for inflammatory or derogatory language at dCS and once I was made aware of these emails I immediately took action and worked with my colleague.

A virtual meeting between dCS, headphones.com and GoldenSound took place on November 1st 2023, where my colleague offered his full and sincere apologies and the matter was talked through between the parties involved. After this meeting headphones.com continued to buy dCS products and work with dCS until July 2024.

We fully acknowledge that some of the emails shared by GoldenSound were unacceptable and we addressed and acknowledged this in subsequent communications.

We are not a large corporation seeking to restrict independent reviews. We are a small independent business that has been operating for over 30 years.

We take great pride in the measured performance of our products and regularly submit our products for test, measurement and subjective listening tests worldwide. Genuine, independent measurement and subjective review of audio components by the media is an extremely important part of our industry and we will always be in support of this.

At present we have no further comments to make on this matter, however we always welcome questions regarding our products and technologies and invite anyone who would like to know more about these to contact us at [email protected].

We also welcome discussions with content creators who are keen to discuss how audio companies can best support the creation of reviews, whilst also ensuring that viewers are presented with accurate information and that manufacturers are able to address anything we feel could cause unnecessary confusion.

David Steven

 

[amirm]

I wouldn't call anyone who would pay over $12k for a basic signal processing device a "rational person" in this day and age, but maybe that's just me; difference of perspectives I presume.

If something is really the best, folks would buy them. I used to go to wild life photography tours and almost everyone would show up with $10K+ telephoto lenses, almost regardless of their background/financial situation. To a non-wildlife photographer $12K for a lens is crazy but not to people who are into that hobby. This is the profile of the people who send me expensive gear to review. They were convinced based on what they had read is that these things make amazing differences in fidelity so went for it.