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Charles Sprinkle's Kali Audio LP-6

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#41
Just picked up a pair of the LP-6 today and I'm listening right now.

To answer your question YES. I'd say every bit as bad as the lsr305 - maybe even worse.

The speakers themselves sound great. But with the residual noise with no input plugged in and the input adjust set to 0db on the back there is a lot of noise from the tweeter. So much so it would prevent you from using them on a desk if there was no music playing most of the time.

I actually bought them for my desk and they can't be used there with the noise.

Really a shame because they sound really good. I'd easily pay $100 more for these if they were near silent without music playing.

I guess when you're building to a price point something has to give but it's a shame that's where corners were cut.

Probably shipping them back.
How is the residual noise with something plugged in? Many amplifiers are noisier with no input load; that is why residual noise is measured with the inputs shorted. Judging residual noise with an open input is not useful.
 

restorer-john

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#42
Just picked up a pair of the LP-6 today and I'm listening right now.

To answer your question YES. I'd say every bit as bad as the lsr305 - maybe even worse.

The speakers themselves sound great. But with the residual noise with no input plugged in and the input adjust set to 0db on the back there is a lot of noise from the tweeter. So much so it would prevent you from using them on a desk if there was no music playing most of the time.

I actually bought them for my desk and they can't be used there with the noise.

Really a shame because they sound really good. I'd easily pay $100 more for these if they were near silent without music playing.

I guess when you're building to a price point something has to give but it's a shame that's where corners were cut.

Probably shipping them back.
Well, this is where the rubber hits the road. All the crazy loud demonstrations and excited hand waving at the point of sale in the dealer's showroom, neglect to expose the Achilles heel of many powered speakers when used nearfield. The amplifiers simply are not quiet enough.

Send them back and contact the manufacturer and tell them in no uncertain terms they are too noisy.
 

gr-e

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#43
Correct me if I'm wrong.
The hiss problem can be easily fixed by putting a resistor between the amp and the driver and adding a gain switch that would bypass that resistor so that speaker can reach its max spl.
 

restorer-john

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#44
Correct me if I'm wrong.
The hiss problem can be easily fixed by putting a resistor between the amp and the driver and adding a gain switch that would bypass that resistor so that speaker can reach its max spl.
No, that wouldn't solve the issue and isn't really a good idea. If the amplifier is high in residual noise, nothing will really solve the problem. A redesign perhaps, but no consumer should have to fix a faulty product he just purchased.
 

SIY

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#45
That absolutely depends on the cause of the noise. If the input opamp has a high current noise density, leaving the input open will maximize the noise; driving it with a low source impedance will fix that. If it has a high voltage noise density or the noise source is downstream from the input opamp, that indeed can't be fixed.

I'll check this once we find the box that my 2i2 is packed in (I am currently living in relocation chaos).
 

gr-e

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#46
No, that wouldn't solve the issue and isn't really a good idea. If the amplifier is high in residual noise, nothing will really solve the problem. A redesign perhaps, but no consumer should have to fix a faulty product he just purchased.
Why not? The noise is fixed in volume. That's why passive speakers have less noise: the passive crossover decreases their efficiency.
 

SIY

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#49
Worse yet, I'm two reviews behind and my lab isn't set up yet. I was smart and made sure I could get to the Kalis so I'd have music quickly. I was dumb and didn't think about my interface, which is deep inside one of at least 20 boxes marked "lab."

My wife thinks I'm an idiot. She may have something there.
 

restorer-john

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#50
Why not? The noise is fixed in volume.
1) If the resistor is of high enough value to attenuate the signal, it will greatly affect the damping, frequency response and driver control of the attached amplifier and speaker for the worse.
2) The resistor will dissipate significant heat.
3) The noise may or may not be fixed in volume- we don't know where in the circuit it originates.

Wait for SIY to investigate.
 
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#51
The speakers themselves sound great. But with the residual noise with no input plugged in and the input adjust set to 0db on the back there is a lot of noise from the tweeter. So much so it would prevent you from using them on a desk if there was no music playing most of the time.
Why don't you short the inputs and then report back? Failing that, plug the speakers into a (powered-on) device of some kind with the output gain turned down so the LP6s have some kind of input load and, again, report back. I say report back, because if under these circumstances there is little or no noise from the Kalis, then so far you have done them a disservice which needs to be undone.
 

gr-e

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#52
1) If the resistor is of high enough value to attenuate the signal, it will greatly affect the damping, frequency response and driver control of the attached amplifier and speaker for the worse
2) The resistor will dissipate significant heat.
3) The noise may or may not be fixed in volume- we don't know where in the circuit it originates.
1) The higher load impedance, the better for the amp, no? Anyways, an l-pad can be used to mantain impedance.
2) Huh? Passive crossovers use resistors to attenuate tweeters, nothing catches on fire.
3) It is fixed in volume on LSR305. I'm sure it's the same with LP-6. It's inherent amp noise floor, EEVblog has a two part video on this.
 
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#53
Correct me if I'm wrong.
The hiss problem can be easily fixed by putting a resistor between the amp and the driver and adding a gain switch that would bypass that resistor so that speaker can reach its max spl.
You said to correct you if you were wrong. If you are talkiing about a series resistor inside the box, between the power amp outputs and the drivers, you are wrong. Very wrong.
 

restorer-john

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#54
1) The higher load impedance, the better for the amp, no? Anyways, an l-pad can be used to mantain impedance.
2) Huh? Passive crossovers use resistors to attenuate tweeters, nothing catches on fire.
3) It is fixed in volume on LSR305. I'm sure it's the same with LP-6. It's inherent amp noise floor, EEVblog has a two part video on this.
OK, go enjoy your 'two part video' on residual noise, I'm going to the beach. Have fun.
 
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#56
How is the residual noise with something plugged in? Many amplifiers are noisier with no input load; that is why residual noise is measured with the inputs shorted. Judging residual noise with an open input is not useful.
Why don't you short the inputs and then report back? Failing that, plug the speakers into a (powered-on) device of some kind with the output gain turned down so the LP6s have some kind of input load and, again, report back. I say report back, because if under these circumstances there is little or no noise from the Kalis, then so far you have done them a disservice which needs to be undone.
Of course I plugged something into them. Like I said I was listening to them play music as I was writing.

There's no difference in audible hiss from having an input connected or not. Reason I stated with nothing plugged in is I didn't want anyone to think my source was the cause of the problem. It is not.

Nearly zero hiss when connected to my LSR705Ps which I was doing a back-and-forth comparison.

Don't get me wrong. You can't hear it across the room. But if I have them on my desk 2 feet from my ears it would drive me nuts (same as the 305s did which is why they are in the garage).
 

hvbias

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#57
In a perfect world we'd have everything @SIY mentioned on the previous page

The one with a flat frequency response, low distortion, smooth polar patterns, high dynamic range, and low resonances. I.e., good measurements. ;)

And dead silent operation plus low price. I personally don't mind a bit of hiss for the $150 new/shipped pair of JBL LSR306 MK2, I wouldn't mind paying more for monitors that are dead silent with no music playing but from what I have researched nothing really exists that tick all those boxes and being able to fit on a computer desk.

These also don't sound anything like those old school monitors ye olde days. You can add Altec 604 to the list of awful sounding monitors, I was quite shocked when I heard another forum member's who was infatuated with them.
 
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12B4A

12B4A

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Thread Starter #58
In Rouslan's teardown of the 305, he claims to have found the source of the hiss as 400khz power supply parasitics leaking in to the analog input because of PCB layout. He mentions that a star grounding scheme would alleviate this compared to the ground plane/pour. If this is the case, achieving a hiss free product (in the case of JBL) would not add any extra cost to the product.

With that said, it's unlikely all budget active monitors are committing the same problem but it's intuitively tempting to infer it with Kali's because it's the same engineer for both products. When one looks at all kinds of cheap audio products like wireless headphones, bluetooth speakers, and <30$ stereo amplifiers that don't exhibit hiss, it makes one wonder WHY THE F budget actives can't also be hiss free.
 

SIY

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#59
Only with your ear a centimeter from the drivers.
I now have a quieter room. Still not set up for measurement, but I was just curious if I could hear hiss in this room positioned in the way @dwalme described. And the answer is yes. So as soon as my lab is set back up, I'll measure the noise intensity and spectrum. And a lesson learned for me- I need to do this as part of my measurement suite for powered speakers.
 

RayDunzl

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#60
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