Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Newman]

last consideration…
a fact makes me laugh nowadays: for years we have been looking for the analog sound of vinyl with digital and the perfection of digital through vinyl…

A little bit of rewriting of history there...
for decades, the assumption was that digital sounded audibly bad and analog sounded audibly right/real/natural. The engineers who argued otherwise were called cloth-eared and mocked.

...losing sight of the peculiar characteristics of each of the two systems that have been thus, often judged and belittled without any fault….

That's right. Everyone should just agree that vinyl today is not only technically but also audibly inferior, and they are just having a bit of low-fi fun for various rewards, quite apart from their serious pursuit of sound reproduction excellence via other means if at all.

But if you were to read the full thread, which I am not sadistic enough to recommend, then you would see that has NOT happened. Instead, a lot of vinyl over defending has taken place, along with a lot of shooting of messengers bearing reality-check messages, and trying to shut them up or even to get them banned. So as you can see, 'live and let live' has NOT been the catch cry of the worst of the vinyl crowd, even against fellow vinyl users like myself who wish to discuss how some reasons that some give for favouring vinyl are based on erroneous beliefs and misconceptions about vinyl sound quality.

cheers

 

[MattHooper]

I remember tweaking and manipulating... back when I had no money, a Thorens 166 in awful condition came into my hands. I replaced the main bearing, rewired the tonearm (I'm a naturally clumsy person, this was so much "fun") and oh so gently tightened up the arm bearings, with no idea what I was actually doing. I regreased the motor, ordered a new belt and springs (it had different springs when I got hold of it) ,found I couldn't get the requisite foam bungs for the springs, spent ages finding a foam that actually did the job it was supposed to, put it all together, set up the suspension, mounted and realigned the cartridge, then just as I had it finally working some nice people broke into our flat and removed it.

My last turntable spent more time in the shop having motors repaired and replaced than it ever did playing music for me. Every time, it came back completely screwed up and I had to realign everything again.

Oh, yes, I remember tweaking and manipulating and understanding turntables... frankly, if I ever have to do it again, it'll be too soon.

Sounds like a complete hassle!

My experience is possibly a combination of luck of the draw, and generally not being too fiddly in the technical sense (I’m not the type to for instance, have played with designing amplifiers and that kind of thing).

I can’t remember having problems with our family techniques turntable growing up. I only remember it just working. And I had that turntable which I put off and on into my system right up until Maybe 10 or 15 years ago. And it still worked.

Likewise had no troubles with the micro seiki that replaced it. Nor with my current turntable of the last seven years (aside from changing a cartridge).

Could be pure luck.

Likewise, with my tube amps. My friend used audio research tube amps and sonic frontier, and he got a bit sick of the hassle and replaced it with solid state.

Whereas my Conrad Johnson tube preamp is something like 20 years old and it’s still going fine, and my CJ premier monoblocks are about 28 years old and still going strong - aside from a fuse change, and changing the power tubes around every six years or so (when in heavy use).

If I’d experienced more hassle with vinyl and tube technology, I may have a different view on them and may not have stuck with them.

 

[Galliardist]

Sounds like a complete hassle!

My experience is possibly a combination of luck of the draw, and generally not being too fiddly in the technical sense (I’m not the type to for instance, have played with designing amplifiers and that kind of thing).

I can’t remember having problems with our family techniques turntable growing up. I only remember it just working. And I had that turntable which I put off and on into my system right up until Maybe 10 or 15 years ago. And it still worked.

Likewise had no troubles with the micro seiki that replaced it. Nor with my current turntable of the last seven years (aside from changing a cartridge).

Could be pure luck.

Likewise, with my tube amps. My friend used audio research tube amps and sonic frontier, and he got a bit sick of the hassle and replaced it with solid state.

Whereas my Conrad Johnson tube preamp is something like 20 years old and it’s still going fine, and my CJ premier monoblocks are about 28 years old and still going strong - aside from a fuse change, and changing the power tubes around every six years or so (when in heavy use).

If I’d experienced more hassle with vinyl and tube technology, I may have a different view on them and may not have stuck with them.

It wasn't all bad. I had a Linn Axis that I just plonked down on a cheap coffee table, and it worked well for over a decade - until another burglary.

 

[deweydm]

Everyone should just agree that vinyl today is not only technically but also audibly inferior….

No argument, everyone should agree that vinyl is technically inferior. But audibly inferior? If the mix and mastering is the same, agreed. Differences in mix and mastering are audible though, so sadly, it depends. An admittedly subjective dependency though.

 

[MattHooper]

@Mikig

I’ll save you the trouble of slogging through this thread to try and verify some of the claims above.

Virtually everybody in this thread already agrees that digital, generally speaking, has audible superiorities over vinyl. I think you’ve already seen the flavour of the thread in that regard within the pages you viewed.


Finding the rare disagreements with that in this thread will be like hunting for pins in a haystack. I’d leave that sleuthing hobby to those who seem to enjoy it, and play some music instead

It’s a safe bet that nobody has been threatened with a ban for bringing “ reality checks” if that meant producing factual technical advantages of digital over vinyl.

The disagreements over digital versus vinyl sound quality have tended instead to involve subjective assessment, where some of us have different opinions as to the degree we are hearing Sonic superiority from digital vs our records, how much that matters to us, and whether and why we sometimes can prefer vinyl, despite the sonic advantages for digital.

In my experience, claims about people “ over vinyl defending” tends to be code for “ the other person disagrees with my opinion about how poorly I think vinyl sound quality compares to digital.”

If you don’t downplay your opinion of vinyl sound quality enough, some folks can get antsy.

But I wouldn’t worry about it. The vast majority of members in the thread are totally chill with vinyl.

I hope that helps you get up to speed, and good to see you here!

 

[Holmz]

@Mikig

I’ll save you the trouble of slogging through this thread to try and verify some of the claims above.

Virtually everybody in this thread already agrees that digital, generally speaking, has audible superiorities over vinyl. I think you’ve already seen the flavour of the thread in that regard within the pages you viewed.


Finding the rare disagreements with that in this thread will be like hunting for pins in a haystack. I’d leave that sleuthing hobby to those who seem to enjoy it, and play some music instead

It’s a safe bet that nobody has been threatened with a ban for bringing “ reality checks” if that meant producing factual technical advantages of digital over vinyl.

The disagreements over digital versus vinyl sound quality have tended instead to involve subjective assessment, where some of us have different opinions as to the degree we are hearing Sonic superiority from digital vs our records, how much that matters to us, and whether and why we sometimes can prefer vinyl, despite the sonic advantages for digital.

In my experience, claims about people “ over vinyl defending” tends to be code for “ the other person disagrees with my opinion about how poorly I think vinyl sound quality compares to digital.”

If you don’t downplay your opinion of vinyl sound quality enough, some folks can get antsy.

But I wouldn’t worry about it. The vast majority of members in the thread are totally chill with vinyl.

I hope that helps you get up to speed, and good to see you here!

LP can sound absolutely fantastic, which is some lost on the “Virtually Everybody”.
A lot of people get boner looking at graphs, and removing blood flow to the head. myself included.

Maybe I am just lucky with the TT. But comparing it to the same tracks on Spotify shows no easily way to tell the difference… but it is sighted.
And that is trying to tell the difference.

If one get lost in the music, then it is easy enough to enjoy without trying.

 

[Drakon]

I do think a very important element of the appeal has little to do with the pros and cons of the sound of the format. LPs are inherently collectible in a way no other format is. When I had well over 1000 LPs, most were in the same sort of clear plastic sleeves used with comic books used to protect visual condition of the covers of both Comix and LPs. CDs really don't have nearly the same visual appeal as LPs. . . .

Well put. The pro vs con as Matt says is going to be discussed and perhaps has value but is not the point of this thread. IMHO.

As for the decline of CD sales I agree with another they were new better than their cassette ancestors. But Napster (remember them?) spelled their demise early on. The mass downloading and demand for digital storage pushed digital storage media production. I remember people buying T1 connections to download at what was then blazing speeds knowing that the free Napster train had an expiration date.

I have alot of CDs. Though some are special none have the nostalgic feel of my LPS. Art, music and electro mechanic sonic mystical charm did it for many when it came/comes to records. We here all know in detail how turntables work and how LPs are made but for many it carries a fascination. They know and can see the stylus. And have the general understanding of what is happening. Asking that person to explain the digital path of the song they are streaming brings a blank stare and perhaps a shrug.

We are physical creatures despite our cerebral capacities. We like holding things. Look to sports.

My wife's Kindle holds a huge amount of books. I can only hold one book at a time in my hands. But I greatly prefer the feel of a book. The weight and depending on who bound the book it can be proudly displayed on a shelf. Not so with a digital E reader. I too have books on a kindle and a set of Easton books among many other. There is no doubt the Kindle is better in many ways but I've never admired it, displayed it or proudly shown it to another.

The same with my CDs/digital storage and LPs. I'll never give up my streaming and my digital listening time dwarf LP. But that is largely due to the age and finicky personality of the turntable and age the LPs. The first issue will be soon solved. The second eh.

The higher audio clarity and convenience of digital will always make it my regular choice. I'm not sure how that can be argued.

Albums like that book will always be there when the mood strikes.

 

[MattHooper]

LP can sound absolutely fantastic, which is some lost on the “Virtually Everybody”.

That’s what I think too. Although we have been urged to admit that in playing vinyl we are settling for low-fi and abandoning a serious pursuit of sound reproduction excellence, I disagree. Because I don’t think that characterizes my own experience with records on my system.

“Low-fi” to me has a connotations that suggests a larger gulf between what I’m hearing generally from digital and vinyl on my system. I certainly wouldn’t begrudge anybody else characterizing whatever they are hearing that way. And certainly I do have some records that I would characterize as low-fi. But very often I find the difference between what I hear from records and streaming from my digital server to be much closer. Maybe I’d term it “lower” fi (or “lesser fi?”). The advantages for digital are usually there, with vinyl somewhat nipping at its heels in quite a few instances.

Have I abandoned sound reproduction excellence? Not to my mind; in terms of sound quality I am as concerned with the excellence of my vinyl playback as I am with my digital playback. I’ve done what I can to achieve to my perception, excellence in sound quality from vinyl playback.

What do I often hear from my system? Back wall melting sound staging, precise and palpable imaging, Rich smooth sound, very high levels of recorded detail so I can hear if it’s in the recording the “ BAP” of the drum pedal against the bass drum, The growl of low strings exquisitely carved out in their own space and acoustic, and almost reached out and touch it vividness of a trumpet popping out of the air, and even in complex recordings in a sense of every single minute bit of information seems cleanly revealed? Etc..

What am I describing digital or vinyl?

I’m describing both on my system. Either/Or can present me with such experiences. Either/Or can wow guests with demos as well.

So I never feel that I’m slumming it when I switch to records. I’m an audiophile, I spent tons of money on my system to hear great sound, and if I found the sound quality was that bad playing records, I would not be playing them.

Whether I hear sound that blows me away tends to have more to do with the differences in recording quality than it does, whether I’m playing a record or streaming from my server.
But hey, that’s my experience. I totally respect anyone else having very different experiences and opinions when they’ve compared vinyl to digital.

But comparing it to the same tracks on Spotify shows no easily way to tell the difference… but it is sighted.

Well, in regards to sighted listing with vinyl versus digital, you’ve got a lot of company there! When CD arrived and we were promised as perfect sound - or a significant advance and sound quality - that’s generally what people reported hearing. Including a great many audiophiles. Virtually all of the common instances of people experiencing CD superiority, including the experiences of ASR members dumping records for CD, were under sighted conditions. For the most part nobody was double blind testing vinyl against CD. (if you’re look into the very few such tested have been done you can see just how hard it actually is to do that in the scientific manner.)

So in this case, join the sighted anecdote crowd.

 

[Newman]

There is an even-ginormously-bigger 'crowd' who own the cheapest, poorest earbuds and reckon their shite earbuds sound "blow me away" good. I'm not trying to tell them they don't like that either. They obviously do. If that is the argument for vinyl sound, ie sixty-quintillion flies eat shite so it must be good, then let's expose the joke for what it is. It's the very meaning of the word 'satisficing'. 'Settling' is also good. You guys go 'settle' at whatever level you like. Call that level whatever you like, too, that won't change what it is. Low, mid, mid-high, lower, lesser, yeah yeah yeah, all good. Twist away. Twist away for 9188 posts, you are still accepting handcuffs when it comes to the big game in town....the reason for becoming an audiophile...aspirational sound quality. Setting your budget and then aspiring to the best sound quality you can get for that money, and doing it as a format-agnostic, tech-agnostic, truth-seeking, audio, phile.

"Sighted anecdote crowd"....what a joke, there are forums for that, right? What are their names again? How many decades have we had to read that stuff until it starts to seep through our defences and we question our own conclusions? It's corrosive, right? When I see that stuff posted here on ASR I will continue to call it. It's nothing personal towards the perpetrators, it's for the general readership.

Speaking of sighted anecdotes, we do realise that we are totally irrelevant to the vinyl revival on the sales charts, right? Every single one of you telling 'my audio journey' bedtime stories in response to this thread are way, way, off-topic. Embracing and perpetuating the bedside banter in this thread, while trying to forbid discussion of the pros and cons of vinyl and their relative weight in the revival, is nothing short of ironic.

[after feedback I have edited the first line to make it clear what quality of earbuds I am talking about. More details, link]

 

[antcollinet]

There is an even-ginormously-bigger 'crowd' who reckon their shite earbuds sound "blow me away" good. I'm not trying to tell them they don't like that either. They obviously do. If that is the argument for vinyl sound, ie sixty-quintillion flies eat shite so it must be good, then let's expose the joke for what it is. It's the very meaning of the word 'satisficing'. 'Settling' is also good. You guys go 'settle' at whatever level you like. Call that level whatever you like, too, that won't change what it is. Low, mid, mid-high, lower, lesser, yeah yeah yeah, all good. Twist away. Twist away for 9188 posts, you are still accepting handcuffs when it comes to the big game in town....the reason for becoming an audiophile...aspirational sound quality. Setting your budget and then aspiring to the best sound quality you can get for that money, and doing it as a format-agnostic, tech-agnostic, truth-seeking, audio, phile.

"Sighted anecdote crowd"....what a joke, there are forums for that, right? What are their names again? How many decades have we had to read that stuff until it starts to seep through our defences and we question our own conclusions? It's corrosive, right? When I see that stuff posted here on ASR I will continue to call it. It's nothing personal towards the perpetrators, it's for the general readership.

Speaking of sighted anecdotes, we do realise that we are totally irrelevant to the vinyl revival on the sales charts, right? Every single one of you telling 'my audio journey' bedtime stories in response to this thread are way, way, off-topic. Embracing and perpetuating the bedside banter in this thread, while trying to forbid discussion of the pros and cons of vinyl and their relative weight in the revival, is nothing short of ironic.

You OK?

 

[HammersRocco]

You OK?

I don't think so. Is there a doctor in the house?
This is strange behaviour. Is like the fine gent does not understand the written word. Again for whatever bizarre condition he wants people in ASR to stop using vinyl. Have a think about that. It is strange.

 

[Drakon]

That escalated quickly.

 

[HammersRocco]

That escalated quickly.

Sorry - it is just strange to me. He is fighting a war he should be fighting over at Audiogon, Ken Micallef or Fremer's sites, not here. Frustrating.

Putting myself on a time out!

Latah

 

[antcollinet]

OK folks - my comment was intended as a gentle dig. Let's not turn it into a pile on.

 

[Drakon]

Sorry - it is just strange to me. He is fighting a war he should be fighting over at Audiogon, Ken Micallef or Fremer's sites, not here. Frustrating.

Putting myself on a time out!

Latah

Not your post but his. It came out of nowhere.

 

[Drakon]

OK folks - my comment was intended as a gentle dig. Let's not turn it into a pile on.

I knew you were joking. I hope he does too. No pile on intended. Apologies if it came across as such.

 

[MattHooper]

Hi Newman, thanks for your opinion.

There is an even-ginormously-bigger 'crowd' who reckon their shite earbuds sound "blow me away" good. I'm not trying to tell them they don't like that either. They obviously do. If that is the argument for vinyl sound, ie sixty-quintillion flies eat shite so it must be good, then let's expose the joke for what it is

If you want to think that I am in the category of people who have no inkling about good sound, that is certainly your prerogative. You are welcome to that opinion.

Twist away. Twist away for 9188 posts,

I don’t know why some of us giving an account of our own experiences and preferences count as “twisting.” That sounds kind of painful.

you are still accepting handcuffs when it comes to the big game in town....the reason for becoming an audiophile...aspirational sound quality. Setting your budget and then aspiring to the best sound quality you can get for that money, and doing it as a format-agnostic, tech-agnostic, truth-seeking, audio, phile.

I’m curious, how many times do you think it has been pointed out to you that I, and most in this thread who have a turntable, also have a perfectly good digital front end that we listen to and thoroughly enjoy as well?

Do you think it might be quite a few times at this point?

How does the ability to go back-and-forth between listening to digital and vinyl as we please count as “ accepting handcuffs?”

That to me sounds like equating the freedom to enjoy being inside your house or go outside and enjoy the outdoors at will “ to “being under house arrest.”

"Sighted anecdote crowd"....what a joke, there are forums for that, right?

I believe you have been on the forum long enough to recognize that sighted anecdotes are acceptable when presented as such?
Nobody here has made the pretence of using double blind testing when we are listening to records.

My reference was to the fact that virtually nobody, including likely none of of us here, routinely double blind tested their record listening experiences with their CDs. Nor do we need to expect them to now.

Tell me, when you started adopting CDs: did you think the technical superiority of CD translated into audible advantages over vinyl? And that these advantages were obvious enough under sighted conditions? Or did you go double blind testing all your new CDs against records?

Are you double blind testing your records against CD now, to make sure you’re every impression is scientifically accurate?

Can you agree it would be impractical to put the restriction on this thread that nobody can discuss their experience with vinyl records, including hearing the audible artefacts and failures of vinyl versus digital , unless in each case they’ve done a double blind test?

Every single one of you telling 'my audio journey' bedtime stories in response to this thread are way, way, off-topic.

I’m afraid that’s incorrect Newman.
And it’s sort of odd that you make that mistake, since just a few pages back :

You sought to remind us that the OP started off by wondering why audiophiles would get back into vinyl. And I explained again to you why This makes my replies, particularly pertinent.

And it certainly means it’s pertinent for any other audiophiles on this site recounting why they are currently playing/buying records. The OP is literally asking people in this thread for their own insights on this. How could this possibly be off-topic?

Embracing and perpetuating the bedside banter in this thread,

Just curious, is this type of post up to your current personal standards? It seems unnecessarily hostile. But maybe that’s just me.

while trying to forbid discussion of the pros and cons of vinyl and their relative weight in the revival, is nothing short of ironic.

Me, only two pages ago:

It’s clearly legitimate to discuss the pros and cons of vinyl, which of course has been ongoing. Of course anyone’s view, their attitude towards vinyl, should be welcome. It’s turned into a wide ranging discussion.

Can you explain to us how that would square with your claim that someone is trying to forbid discussion of pros and cons about vinyl. Because I’ve clearly said just the opposite.

Or were you speaking to some other person who has tried to forbid you?

Strawman are never helpful for discussions, so if we could just clear this up?

Cheers

 

[Drakon]

Hi Newman, thanks for your opinion.



If you want to think that I am in the category of people who have no inkling about good sound, that is certainly your prerogative. You are welcome to that opinion.



I don’t know why some of us giving an account of our own experiences and preferences count as “twisting.” That sounds kind of painful.



I’m curious, how many times do you think it has been pointed out to you that I, and most in this thread who have a turntable, also have a perfectly good digital front end that we listen to and thoroughly enjoy as well?

Do you think it might be quite a few times at this point?

How does the ability to go back-and-forth between listening to digital and vinyl as we please count as “ accepting handcuffs?”

That to me sounds like equating the freedom to enjoy being inside your house or go outside and enjoy the outdoors at will “ to “being under house arrest.”



I believe you have been on the forum long enough to recognize that sighted anecdotes are acceptable when presented as such?
Nobody here has made the pretence of using double blind testing when we are listening to records.

My reference was to the fact that virtually nobody, including likely none of of us here, are routinely double blind testing their record, listening experiences with their digital front end. And that when CD came along virtually, nobody was doing that either - we were all just listening to the shiny new CD format inside conditions and going on those impressions (which were strong enough to get practically every old enough member here to dump their records for CD at the time).

Tell me, when you started adopting CDs: did you think the technical superiority of CD translated into audible advantages over vinyl?
And that these advantages were obvious enough under sighted conditions? Or did you go double blind testing all your new CDs against records?

Are you double blind testing your records against CD now, to make sure you’re every impression is scientifically accurate?

Can you agree it would be impractical to put the restriction on this thread that nobody can discuss their experience with vinyl records, including hearing the audible artefacts and failures of vinyl versus digital , unless in each case they’ve done a double blind test? Can you understand that would be a bit extreme and impractical?



I’m afraid that’s incorrect Newman.
And it’s sort of odd that you make that mistake, since just a few pages back :

You sought to remind us that the OP started off by wondering why audiophiles would get back into vinyl. And I explained again to you why This makes my replies, particularly pertinent.

And it certainly means it’s pertinent for any other audiophiles on this site recounting why he is currently playing/buying records.



Just curious, is this type of post up to your current personal standards? It seems unnecessarily hostile. But maybe that’s just me.




Me, only two pages ago:

It’s clearly legitimate to discuss the pros and cons of vinyl, which of course has been ongoing. Of course anyone’s view, their attitude towards vinyl, should be welcome. It’s turned into a wide ranging discussion.

Can you explain to us how that would square with your claim that someone is trying to forbid discussion of pros and cons about vinyl. Because I’ve clearly said just the opposite.

Or were you speaking to some other person who has tried to forbid you?

Strawman are never helpful for discussions, so if we could just clear this up?

Cheers

The thread seemed going well so I didn't understand his emotional response thus my reply of things escalating quickly referring to his post. The response was non proportional to the previous comments. I appreciated "ant's" injection of humor.

 

[MattHooper]

The thread seemed going well so I didn't understand his emotional response thus my reply of things escalating quickly referring to his post. The response was non proportional to the previous comments. I appreciated "ant's" injection of humor.

That’s why on this very page I somewhat forewarned Mikig that If you don’t downplay your opinion of vinyl sound quality enough, some folks can get antsy.

But as I also mentioned, it’s no big deal. The vast majority of us here are chill about vinyl.
And I like hearing from all sides of the question. Even why someone might just think vinyl sucks and why they have that opinion. As I said, I don’t think that an emphasis on the cons of vinyl are going to be the best way to answer the OP, but we are bazillion pages in and the conversation is wide ranging.

 

[Galliardist]

There is an even-ginormously-bigger 'crowd' who reckon their shite earbuds sound "blow me away" good. I'm not trying to tell them they don't like that either. They obviously do. If that is the argument for vinyl sound, ie sixty-quintillion flies eat shite so it must be good, then let's expose the joke for what it is. It's the very meaning of the word 'satisficing'. 'Settling' is also good. You guys go 'settle' at whatever level you like. Call that level whatever you like, too, that won't change what it is. Low, mid, mid-high, lower, lesser, yeah yeah yeah, all good. Twist away. Twist away for 9188 posts, you are still accepting handcuffs when it comes to the big game in town....the reason for becoming an audiophile...aspirational sound quality. Setting your budget and then aspiring to the best sound quality you can get for that money, and doing it as a format-agnostic, tech-agnostic, truth-seeking, audio, phile.

"Sighted anecdote crowd"....what a joke, there are forums for that, right? What are their names again? How many decades have we had to read that stuff until it starts to seep through our defences and we question our own conclusions? It's corrosive, right? When I see that stuff posted here on ASR I will continue to call it. It's nothing personal towards the perpetrators, it's for the general readership.

Speaking of sighted anecdotes, we do realise that we are totally irrelevant to the vinyl revival on the sales charts, right? Every single one of you telling 'my audio journey' bedtime stories in response to this thread are way, way, off-topic. Embracing and perpetuating the bedside banter in this thread, while trying to forbid discussion of the pros and cons of vinyl and their relative weight in the revival, is nothing short of ironic.

I'm not surprised at the tone of this post, but I think you're hitting a few wrong targets here.

Firstly, decent earbuds and a good phone as a source, will still hammer a lot of expensive systems - dodgy old turntables, the worse SET amps, poorly designed speakers - you know the ones - and even real high end stuff if it's poorly set up. I've been in a dem room where a massive expensive system was beaten for musical content by a cheap Android phone because of crap setup. Earbuds can be properly balanced, full range, can go anywhere (important to some people) and have that access to streaming services for a wide range of music that is often actually mastered for them. If you come across people using shite earbuds, direct them here where good ones are reviewed and recommended. And maybe at a very low budget, that is the best sound. Earbuds can even be what you preach!

Secondly, sighted anecdotes. @MattHooper is actually right about people moving to CD because of sighted comparisons - in part. They also had measurements, of course. They had recommendations from people who could be trusted, the engineers who were comparing, sometimes blind, CD standard digital to analogue master tape, and so on.

But didn't a lot of people - including many of the usual suspects still writing for the same magazines forty years later - also do sighted comparisons and somehow manage to prefer LP in the language they used? Hmm... they were deaf already back then, what the hell is their hearing like now? Though we could be generous and suggest some of them are just following the trends and the money to keep their careers. (I'm actually convinced Fremer really spends his time listening to that six figure digital source that he shows us in those listening room videos, counting his money and laughing his head off at the idiots who believe that crap he writes!) That's not to deny that vinyl can sound very good, but in direct comparison... (And for those wondering, one of the first things that happened after CD's release was a massive change towards proper tonal accuracy in LP playback, especially through further development of the tonearm and better RIAA stages. The differences were greater at the beginning of the CD era).

On settling, there are two reasons for "settling" and I've done both. Through the 1980s and up to the mid 1990s, I was settled on vinyl, despite knowing that CD had better sound. The other aspect of "audiophilia" is actually having something to listen to. I had a reasonable size record collection, access to a far larger one through the local record library, and pretty much no money. I could have scraped together enough for a CD player, and eventually got a cheap model for free from an upgrader, but listening to the same three or four CDs for several years would have been maddening. Now we have streaming, of course, but since this is a nostalgia thread in part i thought I'd remind people again - just like turntable setup was irritating when it was your only source and not "fun", we were limited in the music we had available back then as well. This is the golden age. It may not be long before streaming services dump a lot of their current catalogues and artists and labels stop bothering to upload albums that don't pay them anything. Make the most of it while you can.

These days I'm "settled" because of my living circumstances. I'm in a small flat, with a partner who has filled it with books and is hopelessly confused when watching movies in cinemas with surround sound, part of her hearing problem. So, I'm settled with moderately good stereo equipment in an imperfect setup. But don't forget to pull me down for not being "aspirational" if you like. I'll still recommend to anyone with a decent sized dedicated room that they should at least consider a surround setup, because I both understand the science and have had the experience. Sighted, of course. And some of those surround mixes are actually pretty terrible, so maybe I'm missing less than I might think.