Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Count Dacula]

 

[IPunchCholla]

$3300 for:

• Coreless direct drive motor achieving stable rotation
• ΔΣ-Drive suppresses vibrations from the motor for smoother, more accurate rotation
• Anti-vibration structure with a three-layer platter and a two-layer chassis
• Low-noise, low-voltage power circuit and a switching power supply
• Tonearm achieving high Initial-motion sensitivity
• High-rigidity body and high-damping silicon insulators for smooth sound and isolation from various vibrations

But no actual numbers, so no way to evaluate if any of it matters under typical listening conditions.

 

[Robin L]

$3300 for:

• Coreless direct drive motor achieving stable rotation
• ΔΣ-Drive suppresses vibrations from the motor for smoother, more accurate rotation
• Anti-vibration structure with a three-layer platter and a two-layer chassis
• Low-noise, low-voltage power circuit and a switching power supply
• Tonearm achieving high Initial-motion sensitivity
• High-rigidity body and high-damping silicon insulators for smooth sound and isolation from various vibrations

But no actual numbers, so no way to evaluate if any of it matters under typical listening conditions.

And they remove the ability to play 78s, along with the ability to adjust speed. Pay more, get less.

 

[Snoopy]

$3300 for:

• Coreless direct drive motor achieving stable rotation
• ΔΣ-Drive suppresses vibrations from the motor for smoother, more accurate rotation
• Anti-vibration structure with a three-layer platter and a two-layer chassis
• Low-noise, low-voltage power circuit and a switching power supply
• Tonearm achieving high Initial-motion sensitivity
• High-rigidity body and high-damping silicon insulators for smooth sound and isolation from various vibrations

But no actual numbers, so no way to evaluate if any of it matters under typical listening conditions.

looks like the „G“ version of my SL1500C .. I kinda like it and if there is a good offer in the future, why not ?

I was already thinking about a Denon DP3000 NE as second turntable. But this would definitely a nice option too.

Who knows in a couple of years

 

[IPunchCholla]

looks like the „G“ version of my SL1500C .. I kinda like it and if there is a good offer in the future, why not ?

I was already thinking about a Denon DP3000 NE as second turntable. But this would definitely a nice option too.

Who knows in a couple of years

I’m not against it. I have a (vintage) Technics myself. I have an issue with 1. How this information is presented. They have all sorts of info and special names for their tech. But they don’t even claim it is better than their less expensive turn tables. It might not even be better than mine from 40 years ago. Mine has more features at least. 2. The constant messaging that you need to spend thousands to get a good TT without any actual evidence.

I mean, I know, capitalism. Technics has to play the game. I’m just exhausted by constantly having to try and understand anything factual in the constant stream of FOMO instilling ads. And Technics is good enough they don’t need to go that route. And yes. They are mild compared to most in the field.

Also. Is it pronounced Techneeks? I’ve always said Technicks.

 

[EJ3]

And they remove the ability to play 78s, along with the ability to adjust speed. Pay more, get less.

You mean like this from KAB?

KAB Mods For Technics SL-1200/1210 MK2,3,5,6,M5G​	Back To Top​
78 Speed Mod	SPEEDS: 33/45/78 RPM 78 RANGE:72 - 84 RPM Add 78 RPM to your 1200/1210 (1979-2010) and discover the earliest beginnings of recorded sound. Nothing changes. We add 78 speed while retaining the full stock performance at 33 and 45 RPM. the variable speed control works on all three speeds just as it should offering plus and minus 8 percent of adjustable speed. The speed change is coded into the existing speed buttons. The mod is clean and neat. Turntable must be returned to KAB for this modification. Normal turnaround time is 7-10 days. Read More...​	Only $175.00 ​
​	​	​
Half Speed Mod​	SPEEDS: 16.66/22.5/33.33/45 RPM All speeds quartz locked with 8% variable speed. Models: All mk2,3,4,5,M5G Add 16.66 and 22.5 half speed ranges to your original 1200 (1979-2010) and discover the lost era of talking story books, church sermons, bible recitals and other exotic recordings. Also, very useful for half speed mastering of damaged or severly warped material that will not play at normal speeds. The variable speed control works on both speeds just as it should offering plus and minus 8 percent of adjustable speed. The speed change is coded into the start-stop button. The mod is clean and neat. Turntable must be returned to KAB for this modification. Normal turnaround time is 7-10 days. Alternatively, if you have access to technical skills, A detailed instruction book is available for self installation. The labor cost of troubleshooting a failed self installation is not included in this price.​

 

[drmevo]

And they remove the ability to play 78s.

What gave you that impression?

Also. Is it pronounced Techneeks? I’ve always said Technicks.

It’s supposedly the former, but I refuse to go along with that and pronounce it like the latter.

 

[Robin L]

What gave you that impression?

That this turntable can't play 78s? The lack of buttons for that. But I will check the information from Technics.
Edit: Gear Patrol says this turntable supports 33 &1/3 and 45 rpm.

 

[drmevo]

That this turntable can't play 78s? The lack of buttons for that. But I will check the information from Technics.

Ah. Well as far as I know, none of their newer turntables have a 78 button. You press 33 and 45 together for 78.

 

[Robin L]

Ah. Well as far as I know, none of their newer turntables have a 78 button. You press 33 and 45 together for 78.

One of the things that make the DJ series of Technics turntables useful for playing 78s is variable speed adjustment. 78's are not as consistent in playback speed as later formats. In any case, none of the posts I've read concerning this model mention 78 rpm capability, three mention 33 & 1/3 and 45 rpm. Not too surprising considering that few people would want that feature anyway.

 

[drmevo]

One of the things that make the DJ series of Technics turntables useful for playing 78s is variable speed adjustment. 78's are not as consistent in playback speed as later formats. In any case, none of the posts I've read concerning this model mention 78 rpm capability, three mention 33 & 1/3 and 45 rpm. Not too surprising considering that few people would want that feature anyway.

Agreed few would want it and it’s not as useful without speed adjustment. Looks like the UK spec sheet says it is available, though.

Specs - SL-1300G Grand Class Turntables - Technics UK & Ireland

See all product specifications for Technics SL-1300G Grand Class Turntables. Check detailed functions, features, and more on this page.

www.technics.com

 

[Snoopy]

Quess if I where to play 78s I would probably use a turntable only for that and leave a cartridge for it only on that table.

But I would love a 1300G with a fancy MC cartridge next to my 1500C with a affordable (something like a 540ML ) MM cartridge

 

[Robin L]

Agreed few would want it and it’s not as useful without speed adjustment. Looks like the UK spec sheet says it is available, though.

Specs - SL-1300G Grand Class Turntables - Technics UK & Ireland

See all product specifications for Technics SL-1300G Grand Class Turntables. Check detailed functions, features, and more on this page.

www.technics.com

Thanks, that clears that up.

 

[rank]

In fact, you just have to press the two speed buttons, as is often the case... 33+45= ?

 

[MattHooper]

Given Dr Floyd Toole has been invoked earlier in the thread, I figured I’d post a link to a conversation I stumbled upon: Dr. Toole’s contributions in this old Audioholics thread. I figure some here might enjoy reading him engaging the subject if they haven’t seen this before. Here’s a couple of of his posts:

https://forums.audioholics.com/foru...for-vinyl-record-playback.97938/#post-1120429


https://forums.audioholics.com/foru...for-vinyl-record-playback.97938/#post-1120554



Even back in 2016 Dr Toole said he hadn’t listened to a record in 30 years, but he was certainly able to recall plenty of his experience with vinyl. I think every post Dr. Toole makes in that thread is rewarding to read. As we can see, it’s typical Toole: a font of technical and historical knowledge and wonderfully precise writing!

The main thrust has to do with his attempts to deal with the limitations of vinyl. Few people sound happier to have moved on from vinyl than Dr Toole.

Ultimately, he says of people’s interest in vinyl LPs:

“I fully understand interest in LPs, as I understand interest in '57 Chevys. It is nostalgia, a hobby thing, something to play around with. But, please, let us not pretend that it is superior technology.”

My own musings on this:

What I take from this is that Toole certainly isn’t railing against people enjoying records. He’s just against bullshit claims of vinyl superiority. Which is a stance most of us here (including me ) take.

And of course, while Dr. Toole’s experience with vinyl is always interesting, the information about vinyl’s drawbacks are well-known, and have been acknowledged by most of us ASR regulars in this thread.

While some puzzle over the choice of enjoying vinyl (and other introductions of colouration such as tube amps). As I’ve pointed out before, subjective preference seems to still fit comfortably within even Dr Toole’s philosophy. I infer that, of course Dr Toole would never choose vinyl as a playback medium for himself, as he seeks accuracy. And that in his ideal world, we’d have standards by which the equipment used in mixing music and home playback gear would match up well so that we hear similar sound. Which is a reasonable ideal, of course!

Though the fact is that even if, tomorrow, every mixing studio and audiophile listening room were outfitted with similar best practises loudspeakers, we’d still be stuck with the vast history of recorded music, which was mixed in scenarios all over the map. Hence we’d still have a circle of confusion for anyone who cares to listen to previously recorded music. So everybody’s left to make their own call on that scenario.

In any case, I still think it is worth pointing out that much of Toole’s research regarding loudspeakers, especially his time at Harman Kardon, involved investigating subjective preferences and how to satisfy those preferences. (in loudspeaker design.). And also that Dr Toole seems fine with the use of tone controls and even up-mixing two channel stereo to surround, in order to satisfy personal preferences.

This is why I don’t see my own or anyone else’s choices to play with sound a little bit to preference as being at odds with either Floyd Toole’s writing as I understand him, nor the overall philosophy of this forum.

Bringing it back to vinyl again:

In the above links Dr Toole does a wonderful job in regaling us about dealing with the limitations of vinyl.

But I continue to think it is valuable to keep clear the difference between facts and opinions.

On one hand, we can have the set of facts about all the potentially audible colorations of vinyl versus digital.

On the other hand, discussion of how significant those liabilities are - that is how significant the sonic differences are to the listener - is generally going to be in the realm of opinion. One person’s mountain may be another person’s molehill.

And of course, any declaration as to the worth or not of vinyl based on its limitations versus digital, is going to be a value judgement and an opinion.

No matter who is making such a judgment.

 

[Count Dacula]

I’m not against it. I have a (vintage) Technics myself. I have an issue with 1. How this information is presented. They have all sorts of info and special names for their tech. But they don’t even claim it is better than their less expensive turn tables. It might not even be better than mine from 40 years ago. Mine has more features at least. 2. The constant messaging that you need to spend thousands to get a good TT without any actual evidence.

I mean, I know, capitalism. Technics has to play the game. I’m just exhausted by constantly having to try and understand anything factual in the constant stream of FOMO instilling ads. And Technics is good enough they don’t need to go that route. And yes. They are mild compared to most in the field.

Also. Is it pronounced Techneeks? I’ve always said Technicks.

Without a score card, I do feel like the magic happens in the cartridge more so than the turntable. It's like, the TT is a settled science, but the cartridge has room for tech tweeks and esoterics. Like amps verses speakers. We already know how to make amps...

 

[Newman]

I’m not against it. I have a (vintage) Technics myself. I have an issue with 1. How this information is presented. They have all sorts of info and special names for their tech. But they don’t even claim it is better than their less expensive turn tables. It might not even be better than mine from 40 years ago. Mine has more features at least. 2. The constant messaging that you need to spend thousands to get a good TT without any actual evidence.

I mean, I know, capitalism. Technics has to play the game. I’m just exhausted by constantly having to try and understand anything factual in the constant stream of FOMO instilling ads. And Technics is good enough they don’t need to go that route. And yes. They are mild compared to most in the field.

Also. Is it pronounced Techneeks? I’ve always said Technicks.

I sometimes wonder why the Japanese market has this obsessive attitude to vibration control. Premium products in every category have special treatments for vibration control, even amps and DACs and AVRs. CD players too: if it is trivial for Sony to make a CD Walkman for $200 that can withstand jogging, then boasting about special anti vibration measures on some 20 kg player on a bench at home is pure marketing.

And I bet many readers are thinking it's different for an LP player, but I tell you what: it makes a difference for a record player right up until the point that it doesn't (in listening tests).... and then we are right back to pure marketing!

 

[Count Dacula]

Given Dr Floyd Toole has been invoked earlier in the thread, I figured I’d post a link to a conversation I stumbled upon: Dr. Toole’s contributions in this old Audioholics thread. I figure some here might enjoy reading him engaging the subject if they haven’t seen this before. Here’s a couple of of his posts:

No matter who is making such a judgment.

The notion that the goodness of modern life is incrementally being taken away by the advent of science is a long-play trope within history and sociology of science. Hpwever, they tend to forget about all of the fantastic things brought directly to our lives by science, like abundant food, warmth, antibiotics and digital media.

 

[MattHooper]

I sometimes wonder why the Japanese market has this obsessive attitude to vibration control. Premium products in every category have special treatments for vibration control, even amps and DACs and AVRs. CD players too: if it is trivial for Sony to make a CD Walkman for $200 that can withstand jogging, then boasting about special anti vibration measures on some 20 kg player on a bench at home is pure marketing.

And I bet many readers are thinking it's different for an LP player, but I tell you what: it makes a difference for a record player right up until the point that it doesn't (in listening tests).... and then we are right back to pure marketing!

Totally agree! Well put!

 

[MattHooper]

The notion that the goodness of modern life is incrementally being taken away by the advent of science is a long-play trope within history and sociology of science. Hpwever, they tend to forget about all of the fantastic things brought directly to our lives by science, like abundant food, warmth, antibiotics and digital media.

While I would generally agree, I’m not sure exactly how that relates to the post you quoted. ?