Can a subwoofer IN/OUT degrade audio quality of the speakers?

[PeterHans]

Hello there,

just wondering, I'm currently planning to buy a sub. Also I will get more expensive studio monitors, currently still deciding between Genelec and Neumann.
Yesterday I spent some time on audio shops and read some reviews regarding subwoofers, mainly on Thomann.

I can't name the models anymore but there were several reviews in which customers wrote that the sub would degrade the sound quality of the monitors when they used the sub OUT to the monitors.

So I was asking myself if that can be the case or if it was just an illusion and the sub wasn't set up right?
Is there any chance and if yes, how could the IN/OUT degrade sound quality of the monitors? Is there a difference between cheap and expensive subs, difference between RCA (unbalanced) and XLR (balanced) regarding the quality of IN/OUT?

Thomann Subwoofers

Subwoofers at Europe's largest retailer of musical instruments - fast delivery, 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee and 3-year Thomann warranty

www.thomann.de

Thanks!

 

[palm]

Inserting any electronics in the signal can introduce noise and distortion… but not necessarily audible.
In case of subwoofers the monitor output is filtered with a high pass: with less low frequency content to reproduce the power handling is improved and distortion likely to be reduced, and it also facilitates the correct integration of the sub. So it is usually a good tradeoff.

The alternative is using home theater gear, or quite more complex a multichannel DAC with software crossover, or one of the miniDSP options.

 

[TonyJZX]

i mean it can and i would assume it usually does on low cost subwoofers

but if you tasked a world class manufacturer, say REL, with this they would do a good job

if i see a sub that has XLR i/o and its a famous brand I would probably think they did it properly

but i would also avoid this situation if at all possible

eg. would you do this to a Salon 2? I dont think so.

 

[wwenze]

I would usually first check the post of the guy and see if he thinks cables degrade audio quality.

 

[ZolaIII]

Every (analog) interconnect and patch will cost you a little bit performance (cuple dB SINAD) and of course there is a cable length in case of unbalanced I/O which isn't exactly short but shouldn't be a problem up to 10 m (both cables length together) even with cheap not so thick regular ones. Thing is the fixed high pass on sub's is far from ideally implemented (and it's fixed usually 80 Hz so not exactly flexible) in most cases, it will do for start and later on see to switch to multichannel DAC and feed them directly and of course individually.
Best regards and have fun.

 

[TonyJZX]

a lot of this hobby is what you can stand and where you can compromise

would i use the above on a truly statement setup with all high end stuff? no

but would i use this one a 2ndary system that isnt supposed to be 'reference' (such as it is)

OR maybe a crummy HT setup? yeah

 

[ZolaIII]

Well we live in wonderful time when DAC's with SINAD of 115 dB can be bought cheap so you can afford to lose 15+ dB (on such interconnections) even in case of very good performing amplifier without any audible difference. Still as already stated and for flexibility multichannel DAC is highly recommended and doing crossovers in digital domain (along with all other signal corrections).

 

[boxerfan88]

I added an analog crossover 234XL to extract the LF to the subs. Yes, it does add a tiny bit of “veil” across the mids and highs.

Based on my experience, I’m projecting that the sub electronics would likely do something similar; unless it’s a very high end subwoofer with extremely well designed & built crossover.

That’s why I am considering going the way of digital crossover inside foobar feeding two DACs (one for mains, one for sub)

 

[Hayabusa]

Many do not even bother to spec the signal path line out , like for instance SVS, I asked them but no good answer, so I dont't trust it, at least it raises to noise floor for me that I could hear it from listening position. So I use now a miniDSP SHD as crossover

 

[palm]

No doubt it is possible to make it better, but this kind of crossover functionality built in the sub is nice to have and certainly better than just keeping the speakers full range. My K+H sub has a pedal switch so I can remotely disable the sub and the crossover, and together with test signals delivered with it you could already tune the volume and the phase without measurement equipment: one signal had a narrow band cut around the crossover frequency and another was the opposite, quite smart.

edit: see https://www.neumann.com/downloadcenter/download?assetId=16246

 

[PeterHans]

Thank you guys, great and informative answers!

Maybe too sensitive but in that case I will try to get a solution with a fitting DAC.
First research leads me to the following products:

- miniDSP Flex TRS
- MOTU UltraLite-mk5

 

[LTig]

No doubt it is possible to make it better, but this kind of crossover functionality built in the sub is nice to have and certainly better than just keeping the speakers full range. My K+H sub has a pedal switch so I can remotely disable the sub and the crossover, and together with test signals delivered with it you could already tune the volume and the phase without measurement equipment: one signal had a narrow band cut around the crossover frequency and another was the opposite, quite smart.

edit: see https://www.neumann.com/downloadcenter/download?assetId=16246

The same is true for my old Genelec 7060b sub.