Building a listening bar

[sts]

Hi all,
Bit of a different question here. I'm building a commercial bar/drinking space and would like to model it off of the Japanese kissaten concept to an extent- a high-end speaker system that mostly is used at a conversational level, but then could get turned up to thump at night. Of course, my budget is low. Once we find a lease I'll do the room acoustic work myself, and as a rehabbed audio engineer I can make systems work. My question is what system to put in.

Currently I've got my list as:
Tidal for daytime play
DJ brings the decks, or we get a generic workhorse turntable
Denon pra-2000 pre
McCormack DNA500
B&W Matrix 801 (S1, S2, or S80)

The B&W's are the question mark to me. I used to work on them a bunch and they're a known quantity that CAN sound very good. They are also very cheap on the secondhand market at this point- under $2K, which makes my budget very happy. Downsides are that there may be better* out there, and that they also aren't as sexy looking as many other speakers. The looks come second, but they matter.

So my question- what would you choose to fill a 20x100' space with 20+foot ceilings with pristine thumping goodness on a budget of $5-6K for the whole system?

 

[Midwest Blade]

Sounds like a fun and interesting opportunity. Have only seen these type of places on line but would love to visit one in person. 40,000 cu ft is going to require some thought as to speakers and amplifiers especial if you plan to get things thumping late night.

 

[LightninBoy]

Hi all,
So my question- what would you choose to fill a 20x100' space with 20+foot ceilings with pristine thumping goodness on a budget of $5-6K for the whole system?

I think your going to need a PA system.

 

[TulseLuper]

I've been to a few places in the states like this (In Sheep's Clothing in LA most notably), and they all used big Klipsch systems. Klipschorns and La Scalas. Honestly, despite not being objectively great speakers, I think they make a lot of sense. Not exactly critical listening environments, and alcohol is involved. Don't know your market or exact vibe you're going for of course, but I'd guess the average bar customer will think "holy shit" when they see La Scalas and be impressed by the sound no matter what. It takes a dweeb to see Salon2s and get excited.

If I were doing it, I'd build my own colossal vintage JBL-knockoff speakers with a DDRC-88A crossover and bunch of class D amps.

 

[sts]

I guess I should specify that by "thumping" I mean still in a loud conversational zone. You want to dance, you can dance, but there are nightclubs aplenty around. But I agree, 40k cubic feet is a lot for most systems.

 

[sts]

I've been to a few places in the states like this (In Sheep's Clothing in LA most notably), and they all used big Klipsch systems. Klipschorns and La Scalas. Honestly, despite not being objectively great speakers, I think they make a lot of sense. Not exactly critical listening environments, and alcohol is involved. Don't know your market or exact vibe you're going for of course, but I'd guess the average bar customer will think "holy shit" when they see La Scalas and be impressed by the sound no matter what. It takes a dweeb to see Salon2s and get excited.

If I were doing it, I'd build my own colossal vintage JBL-knockoff speakers with a DDRC-88A crossover and bunch of class D amps.

Not familiar with Sheep's Clothing, I'll have to look them up. The only place I've been that's similar to this is Nightmoves in Brooklyn, and that's a full McIntosh signal path into speakers he built in a fairly small room. Hoping to get a poor man's version for myself.

 

[Midwest Blade]

The Japanese have a big thing for classic JBL speakers which I have seen online.

 

[PierreV]

Tidal for daytime play

 

[sts]

View attachment 122866

Woof. Thanks.

 

[Helicopter]

Agree K-horns or JBL (M2 maybe) DIY clone would be cool. Cornwalls are almost in your budget.

I am curious how something like Revel Performa f328Be or Focal Kanta no3 would handle a space that size... despite being 3x the budget.

Do the Japanese clubs have good speakers like Focal, Revel, etc.? I have seen JBLs in pictures.

 

[Midwest Blade]

JBL CBT 1000? Might be interesting to cover off the space equally with sound.

 

[sts]

Agree K-horns or JBL (M2 maybe) DIY clone would be cool. Cornwalls are almost in your budget.

I am curious how something like Revel Performa f328Be or Focal Kanta no3 would handle a space that size... despite being 3x the budget.

Do the Japanese clubs have good speakers like Focal, Revel, etc.? I have seen JBLs in pictures.

The Asian listening bars are pretty much all JBL's, with a smattering of Altecs. My guess is limited Western distributors in the 80's and 90's, but I don't really know that.

And in a space like that, I kind of wonder if any large home/studio speaker will outperform another by much. The budget constraints plus room volume makes me think slightly cheaper mains plus some satellites are the way to go.

 

[sts]

JBL CBT 1000? Might be interesting to cover off the space equally with sound.

I used to do a lot with EV line arrays. Not the best sound, but they could slaughter this room for sure.

 

[TulseLuper]

Woof. Thanks.

It's very normal to use Spotify in bars/restaurants. This is not legal advice. Couple other thoughts:

Again, apologies for the assumptions here, but unless you only hire audiophiles, it's likely your staff will use Spotify. Giving them the ability to make and share playlists with the bar can be good management practice. Also, the vast selection of playlists makes it a good choice. Of course if you have a collection of Tidal playlists you plan to use, go for it. In this context though, lossless files would be low on my list of concerns.

Speaker choice is as much a hospitality question as a sound quality question. If the concept draws from Japanese listening bars, a line array or other innocuous practical choice like a PA is not likely to provide the right cues to your customers. You can use the fact that people listen with their eyes.

Best of luck! Seems like it will be a cool spot.