• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

AVS Thread: Does anyone base there [sic] buys off audiosciencereview?

RichB

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
1,565
Likes
2,139
Location
Massachusetts
There is a recent thread on AVS:

Does anyone base there buys off audiosciencereview?​


It veered into discussion of the less than flattering ASR review of the Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier).

The usually faulty unit, accusations of quackery, and ulterior motives ensued.
@Amir, you know what you will find there. I don't think it is worth looking at. There are supporters as well.

There is AVS reviewer there with the handle J. Atkinson.
Initially, I and others thought this was John Atkinson of Stereophile (@John Atkinson).

There have been requests for him to change his handle to include his first or middle name.
While disputing the ASR measurements, he a few reviews that on AVS that are entirely subjective with no measurements.
The AVS J. Atkinson has not changed his handle, which (IMO) is troubling.

- Rich
 

PierreV

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
1,314
Likes
4,107
There have been requests for him to change his handle to include his first or middle name.
While disputing the ASR measurements, he a few reviews that on AVS that are entirely subjective with no measurements.
The AVS J. Atkinson has not changed his handle, which (IMO) is troubling.

- Rich

I wouldn't blame him. If my real name was J. Atkinson, I would use it and be rightly pissed if people asked me to change MY name because some other dude shares it. And, in the current context (see recent threads), I am not sure J. Atkinson's name rhymes with unadulterated objectivity ;)

As far as conspiracy theories about Amir are concerned, they are a bit ridiculous in an environment where the other parties have either disclosed or fairly obvious undisclosed conflicts of interest. I'll start to worry about them when Amir is caught _falsifying_ data or measurements and that, in my humble opinion is highly unlikely to ever happen, if only because data and measurements can be and are verified.
 

Killingbeans

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
1,779
Likes
2,986
Location
Bjerringbro, Denmark.
 

acetogen

Member
Joined
May 30, 2021
Messages
92
Likes
30
I wouldn't blame him. If my real name was J. Atkinson, I would use it and be rightly pissed if people asked me to change MY name because some other dude shares it. And, in the current context (see recent threads), I am not sure J. Atkinson's name rhymes with unadulterated objectivity ;)

As far as conspiracy theories about Amir are concerned, they are a bit ridiculous in an environment where the other parties have either disclosed or fairly obvious undisclosed conflicts of interest. I'll start to worry about them when Amir is caught _falsifying_ data or measurements and that, in my humble opinion is highly unlikely to ever happen, if only because data and measurements can be and are verified.
Also Amir has no incentive to falsify outside the very narrow range of products that Madrona Digital distributes and which he clearly discloses. I would say that ASR is similar to the Kelley Blue Book.

I think that making a purchase decision of audio equipment without looking for the product review on this site is not a smart decision. You can trim your purchase list down pretty quickly once independent measurements are included.
 

TLEDDY

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
Messages
503
Likes
569
Location
Central Florida
think that making a purchase decision of audio equipment without looking for the product review on this site is not a smart decision. You can trim your purchase list down pretty quickly once independent measurements are included.
^^^^^Agreed!!
 

acetogen

Member
Joined
May 30, 2021
Messages
92
Likes
30
There is a recent thread on AVS:

Does anyone base there buys off audiosciencereview?​


It veered into discussion of the less than flattering ASR review of the Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier).

The usually faulty unit, accusations of quackery, and ulterior motives ensued.
@Amir, you know what you will find there. I don't think it is worth looking at. There are supporters as well.

There is AVS reviewer there with the handle J. Atkinson.
Initially, I and others thought this was John Atkinson of Stereophile (@John Atkinson).

There have been requests for him to change his handle to include his first or middle name.
While disputing the ASR measurements, he a few reviews that on AVS that are entirely subjective with no measurements.
The AVS J. Atkinson has not changed his handle, which (IMO) is troubling.

- Rich
Based on the little bit of reading of what J. Atkinson writes at AVR I am almost certain they are not the same person. Stereophile's Atkinson writes a lot better and is not blasse about measurements. The AVR guy argues that "opinions matter". He is obviously confusing a customer making an individual purchase versus taking a poll on what people like on AVR.
 

MattHooper

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
2,275
Likes
3,560
I bought an Uptone Audio Regen before getting on ASR and seeing Amirm's review. I sold it after reading the review (without using it).

I recently purchased a Benchmark LA4 preamp based on both the Stereophile review/measurements and also the review/measurements of Benchmark equipment here, such as Amirm's review of the Benchmark AHB2 amp.
 

Mr. E. Guy

New Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
4
Likes
7
Based on the little bit of reading of what J. Atkinson writes at AVR I am almost certain they are not the same person. Stereophile's Atkinson writes a lot better and is not blasse about measurements. The AVR guy argues that "opinions matter". He is obviously confusing a customer making an individual purchase versus taking a poll on what people like on AVR.
It says in his AVS profile "NOT JOHN ATKINSON OF STEREOPHILE"
 
Last edited:

mdunjic

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2021
Messages
70
Likes
52
There is a recent thread on AVS:

Does anyone base there buys off audiosciencereview?​


It veered into discussion of the less than flattering ASR review of the Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier).

The usually faulty unit, accusations of quackery, and ulterior motives ensued.
@Amir, you know what you will find there. I don't think it is worth looking at. There are supporters as well.

There is AVS reviewer there with the handle J. Atkinson.
Initially, I and others thought this was John Atkinson of Stereophile (@John Atkinson).

There have been requests for him to change his handle to include his first or middle name.
While disputing the ASR measurements, he a few reviews that on AVS that are entirely subjective with no measurements.
The AVS J. Atkinson has not changed his handle, which (IMO) is troubling.

- Rich
Funny that most of the Audio Science Review bashers on this AVS forum, completely dismiss Amir’s test measurement results as irrelevant, BUT then fully trust room correction / calibration, built into their own AV processors and receivers … which basically 100% relies on OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENTS of room acoustics (using simple microphone & not their own ears) and then applies those obtained measurements (via built in s/w) to calibrate / adjust AV processor/receiver’s output levels for each channel … no one seems to be advocating for ‘subjective room correction and calibration’ method though, lol
 
Last edited:

voodooless

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
2,797
Likes
4,281
Location
Netherlands
Starke has had every opportunity to communicate decently about the issue and show their own measurements. Yet they chose to do a few ad hominem attacks, do a lot of hand waving and in the process alienate a few existing and prospective customers. All that, they did all by themselves, to themselves.
 

tvrgeek

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Messages
902
Likes
442
Location
North Carolinia
ASR gives a first pass and has pointed me to companies I had never heard of. Bashers everywhere. Some sincere, some trolls.
I believe objective tests are not an end all, but good data because they are not comprehensive enough and leave out that ultimate processor which is immeasurable: Our brain.

The first two DACs I bought were based on ASR. Lower line TOPPING and SMSL. Both returned. But read about Schiit and JDS whom I had never heard of. Bought from them. Seriously contemplating a Vidar or March. Another company I had never heard of.

I look for trends between the two camps. Sometimes they correlate which usually means a winner. A Benchmark amp for instance. Never a bad word anywhere, objective or subjective.
 

Old Listener

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Messages
402
Likes
413
Location
SF Bay Area, California
I bought most of my audio gear before Amir had reviewed it. I did buy a DAC (SDAC Balanced) on the basis of his review and no other source of information about the product. I did know that the designer of the SDAC has a good reputation for more expensive pro audio products.

Amir's reviews and ASR content have been my main sources of audio info for some time. I've wanted such objective information for decades.

Thanks so much, Amir, for starting the forum and putting in all the work measuring gear.
 

mdunjic

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2021
Messages
70
Likes
52
I bought my electronics and speakers long before Amir started ASR so my immediate answer is NO.

However, naturally, as a trained electronic engineer myself, I really enjoy what Amir does impeccably … it’s genuinely unbiased, scientific and pure engineering validation of what manufacturers are publishing in their commercial product specs and what mainstream reviewers are ‘telling audiophiles to think’ … something like this is long overdue tbh

I personally don’t buy into logic that ‘objective measurements are not an end all’, as I myself firmly believe in simple math behind basic laws of sound reproduction and acoustic physics … but hey that’s just me.

However, simply due to so many different variables involved, like many different components configurations and combinations (where those different components don’t measure identical, plus different room acoustics / shapes, speaker positions and dispersion characters, etc), i fully understand that many others probably are and have full right to feel differently about this hobby than me.

If I would be in need of power amp today I would most likely go for feed forward design of Benchmark ABH2 … because it measures impeccably on Amir’s bench. Therefore if I would be starting today, I would listen to Amir.

Disclaimer - maybe it’s just my bias toward feed forward power amp designs like THX AAA (i.e. Benchmark ABH2) or Quad “current dumping”, hehe, as I already have my feed forward based “current dumping “ Quad 909s power amps (last 15 yrs), currently driven with THX AAA based preamp (MyTek Liberty HPA) … in the past I had as preamps Krell KRC3, Quad 99, Quad CDP-2 and now MyTek (which seems cleanest and best sounding preamp so far driving Quads)
 

Attachments

  • FC50704F-21BF-454A-BEF9-352BD9CE38EE.jpeg
    FC50704F-21BF-454A-BEF9-352BD9CE38EE.jpeg
    199.4 KB · Views: 22
  • 3FDF1D9F-AC6C-46EC-AF5D-3C25D9C20849.jpeg
    3FDF1D9F-AC6C-46EC-AF5D-3C25D9C20849.jpeg
    269.2 KB · Views: 23
  • 1AE4D5B0-DAB8-4704-857B-F041A22A068B.jpeg
    1AE4D5B0-DAB8-4704-857B-F041A22A068B.jpeg
    253.4 KB · Views: 23
Last edited:

Golfx

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
145
Likes
98
Location
Suffolk, VA
There is a recent thread on AVS:

Does anyone base there buys off audiosciencereview?​


It veered into discussion of the less than flattering ASR review of the Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier).

The usually faulty unit, accusations of quackery, and ulterior motives ensued.
@Amir, you know what you will find there. I don't think it is worth looking at. There are supporters as well.

There is AVS reviewer there with the handle J. Atkinson.
Initially, I and others thought this was John Atkinson of Stereophile (@John Atkinson).

There have been requests for him to change his handle to include his first or middle name.
While disputing the ASR measurements, he a few reviews that on AVS that are entirely subjective with no measurements.
The AVS J. Atkinson has not changed his handle, which (IMO) is troubling.

- Rich
Absolutely I use ASR measurements to help guide and narrow my choices. Like Amir says “good engineering hygiene“ speaks well for the company and its products. It was ASR and its forum that changed me from Anthem amps and avps to Hypex ncores, Denon AVRs as prepros and now Trinnov. If you can use repeatable math to help guide your decisions it helps remove suggestive (or deceptive) bias and helps you invest your money more wisely.
 

_Dekker

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Messages
14
Likes
15
ASR made me decide on headphone amp, balanced DAC and Genelecs. This site also confirmed my positive opinion on the headphones and integrated amplifier I already had: luckily I seem to have made good choices on my own and it's nice to see that proven by data.
Also made me get rid of the Dragonfly and Cord Mojo DAC's, decisions I absolutely do not regret.
Unfortunately the Dynaudio 18s sub I recently ordered has not been measured but partly due to the forum here I'm confident it will perform perfectly.
 

mdunjic

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2021
Messages
70
Likes
52
ASR made me decide on headphone amp, balanced DAC and Genelecs. This site also confirmed my positive opinion on the headphones and integrated amplifier I already had: luckily I seem to have made good choices on my own and it's nice to see that proven by data.
Also made me get rid of the Dragonfly and Cord Mojo DAC's, decisions I absolutely do not regret.
Unfortunately the Dynaudio 18s sub I recently ordered has not been measured but partly due to the forum here I'm confident it will perform perfectly.
Genelecs are great indeed
 

DimitryZ

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 30, 2021
Messages
643
Likes
285
Location
Waltham, MA, USA
There is a recent thread on AVS:

Does anyone base there buys off audiosciencereview?​


It veered into discussion of the less than flattering ASR review of the Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier).

The usually faulty unit, accusations of quackery, and ulterior motives ensued.
@Amir, you know what you will find there. I don't think it is worth looking at. There are supporters as well.

There is AVS reviewer there with the handle J. Atkinson.
Initially, I and others thought this was John Atkinson of Stereophile (@John Atkinson).

There have been requests for him to change his handle to include his first or middle name.
While disputing the ASR measurements, he a few reviews that on AVS that are entirely subjective with no measurements.
The AVS J. Atkinson has not changed his handle, which (IMO) is troubling.

- Rich
I have recently purchased Gustard X16 based on ASR's recommendation and couldn't be happier with both the accuracy of the review and the experienced sound quality of this product.
 
Top Bottom