Anyone in the mood to talk guitar amps?

[Tom C]

I first learned to play in high school, played jazz ensemble in college, but then put the instrument down to pursue career and family. Now that’s mostly over, and I’d like to pick up a few instruments I could never afford when I was young and broke. A lot has changed since the early 1980’s, but a lot hasn’t. Anyway, I’m wondering what the folks around here like these days for a high quality amp for electric guitar. I always thought I’d get a Marshall stack (like T. Nuge), but are there better choices these days? I don’t really want the weight of a tube amp, although I might consider a low-watt practice type tube amp that doesn’t weigh too much. So, I’m thinking most likely solid state. I have a fond memory of a Kustom I once owned that was covered in tucked red sparkle vinyl and had a purple pilot light. Wish I never sold that one, but traded it for a G&L signed by Leo Fender, which I still have, so maybe it was worth it.

 

[Curvature]

Personally, I would use a high impedance bridge into a mixer or interface, and then listen to the output through studio monitors.

The usual speaker/amp cabs are archaic IMO.

 

[LTig]

Nowadays one uses a modeling amp or preamp. This way you can choose between the sound characteristic of lots of different stacks of the past in an instance.

 

[Philbo King]

Solid state guitar amps have come a long way since then. In the 70s I played in a prog rock band through a 300W full stack (Sunn Model T) with eight 12" speakers. If I brought that setup now I'd be laughed off the stage by the other musicians...

Many now have amp digital emulations built in (turn a knob to change from Marshall to Fender to Vox sound).

Most are much lower power (since improvements in PAs now allow feeding instruments through them, compared to the old crappy vocals-only PAs). I don't know of any pro musicians who use full-stack amps any more, though a large number of rock acts on tour use 'dummy' speaker cabs for visual impact. And there are relatively few who use half-stacks. It's relatively common to see bar band guitarists playing through amps of 30 watts or less, or even without an amp at all (using things like Kemper or Line 6 emulator pedals to get the amp sound without an amp).

For home/hobby use this opens a whole world of choices that sound great and do not have to deafen you. Here are a few amps I have laying around.

The 2 on the left are 40W, the middle is 20W, and the one on the right is a 50W tube amp made in 1965. It weighs enough (maybe 50 lbs) that I never use it on gigs anymore. The other 3 are less than 20 lbs. All of them are more than adequately loud to play alongside a drummer on an acoustic kit.

 

[BR52]

Could rebuild a Fender Studio Bass for a friend last winter, it sounds awesome.
But you're right, it is a little heavy with the transformers.
I'm sure a modern one can't sound like the old VT's. Or only with a lot of synthetic sound manipulation.

 

[BR52]

Before and after incl. new caps, pots, tubes...

 

[DVDdoug]

I'm not a guitar player... I'm not a musician...

Guitar amps/cabinets are not "high fidelity". Hi-fi amps aren't supposed to have any sound of their own so they are supposed to all sound alike.

But different guitar amps are all supposed to sound different. They are supposed to contribute to the sound and be "part of the instrument". Most guitar players have their favorite guitar and their favorite amp and it's highly personal.

With recording it's pretty common to record "direct" with a "sim" (amp/cabinet simulator) plug-in. Or sometimes with a mic in front of the cabinet plus direct recording on another track. Of course different sims can be switched-in after recording. Sims are popular for amateurs because they often can't afford to own the amp of their dreams or several amps, and they can record quietly.

Sims aren't as popular for live performance. You get latency (delay) through a computer and you need an amp anyway. There are some modeling amps that can simulate a variety of different amplifiers but most guitar players are suspicious or skeptical, and you're never going to pull their Marshall tube amp (or whatever) from their "cold dead hands".

Jim Jill has some interesting YouTube videos about guitar and amplifier "sound". He's not an engineer (or scientist) but he does some interesting "scientific" experiments. ...Interesting to me, even though I'm not a musician.

 

[BR52]

A guitar amp is part of the signal source (instrument) and can have a sound, it has nothing to reproduce. It’s for sure highly personal. And for me personally Hendrix was a great artist he could make music with feed back from speakers to the pickup modulating with his body. No high tech involved

 

[Tom C]

Thanks everybody for the replies!
I can see I’ve got some thinking and research to do. No that you all mention it, I haven’t seen anybody playing a stack in quite a long while. I do see the ever popular Fender Twin from time to time on stage though.
Can you really get the sound of a cab of 4 x 12” speakers through a PA?

 

[617]

No. Although not deliberate, the dispersion of a full range 2x2 array of large woofers deliberately breaking up, loaded in a semi dipole box, will never sound the same as a PA. I really believe that the spatial chaos created by guitar amps is why they sound so alive. Modeling is two dimensional and captures none of what happens in the room.

If you've ever heard a JC120 chorus in the right venue, that's another sound which doesn't come across on a PA.

Good or bad I have no idea but it's not the same. Most artists use the PA or a mic'd cabinet, either a big one in a box offstage or a small one, which is effectively the same thing as modeler- a point sample. Modelers model the microphone and cabinet.

Thanks everybody for the replies!
I can see I’ve got some thinking and research to do. No that you all mention it, I haven’t seen anybody playing a stack in quite a long while. I do see the ever popular Fender Twin from time to time on stage though.
Can you really get the sound of a cab of 4 x 12” speakers through a PA?

 

[Philbo King]

I don't really worry about the sound too much; I play to make it sound good regardless of the amp sound.

Tone is in the fingers... Stevie Ray Vaughn playing a Teisco Del Rey guitar would still sound like Stevie.

 

[KSTR]

I always thought I’d get a Marshall stack (like T. Nuge), but are there better choices these days?

Owning two JCM800 2203 heads and a full stack of cabinets I can tell you there are better choices, if only for weight and size.
A good 1x12 cabinet is all you need (make sure you can tilt it or place it so that the speaker doesn't fire below hip level)
For amps, I'm very happy with the Victory V4 Sherriff, which is a two channel tube preamp with class D supply and power, also having a cabinet simulation output. Traditional and modern Marshall sounds without gimmicks (except for a digital reverb).

 

[Rja4000]

There are some modeling amps that can simulate a variety of different amplifiers but most guitar players are suspicious or skeptical, and you're never going to pull their Marshall tube amp (or whatever) from their "cold dead hands".

Speaking of Kemper or other convolution-based gear,
Kemper publishes a list of some famous guitarists using their gear:

Hall of Fame | Kemper Amps

Kemper Amps

www.kemper-amps.com

 

[Curvature]

No need to follow tradition.

 

[Multicore]

FIRST Do you want a real guitar amp, as in, "I want the real thing!" (e.g. a 60s tube amp) or do you want guitar amplification so you can play? For example, a big Marshall with two 4x12 cabs sounds fantastic but only when it's turned up all the way. And and it's not exactly versatile.

Or do you want amplification so you can play guitar. In which case check out amp and cab modelers. For example, I have Headrush Gigboard and I can plug it into headphones, studio monitors (via MOTU M4 audio interface), PA amplification and I think it sounds terrific. These are the amps and cabs it simulates (but I use it with a cab impulse response from York Audio):

Headrush Models 2.5.pdf

drive.google.com

This approach is more versatile and easier to live with than a real guitar amp. But if what you want is a real guitar amp for the sake of having that then it may not satisfy.

Alternatively, check out the guitar combo amps that have modelers built in such as Boss Katana and PositiveGrid Spark, which is my portable practice amp, which I think sounds terrific.

EDIT to add: plus I can plug a steel or nylon string acoustic into the same rig, switch patches and it works great.

 

[Multicore]

Sims aren't as popular for live performance. You get latency (delay) through a computer and you need an amp anyway.

I don't think this is true today. Current floor modelers (multi fx) have insignificant latency and are popular live for convenience and superior sound vis: floor modeler (e.g. Line 6 Helix, Headrush) DIs to the front of house sound board. This is much easier to get a good house and monitor mixes than trying to balance everything with back line amps. If you're using IEMs and everyone gets their own monitor mix then why would you want a back line amp making everything harder?

 

[Multicore]

Can you really get the sound of a cab of 4 x 12” speakers through a PA?

Yes. 100%

Don't take my word for it. Try the Celestion, York Audio, or Own Hammer impulse responses for yourself.

But if you want the sound and the experience of standing in front of a hot and glowing Marshall stack with feedback, which is a perfectly valid desire, then it may not satisfy. I'd love to do that but I probably never will have the chance.

Fwiw, the best guitar amp sound is from a 1x12. If you need to shift more air then in the old days you had no choice and needed more drivers. But today you have another options: you can use a 1x12 IR and a beefy quality PA.

 

[Valvetubehead]

There really is no shortage of options, and everyone has different tastes or requirements. I still like to turn it to 11 on the Marshall 50w JCM800 half-stack every now and then… its magic with all kinds of guitars, but mostly I play couch concerts with little 5w Champ600 lunch boxes Fender put out a few years back, which sound & look better than they should. I little overdrive goes a long way with the tiny fender champ. There’s an infinite number of pedals these days to twirl and crunch your brains with, I keep my collection solidly in the 1990’s. I like the 2x12 cabinet that mojo-tone builds with custom options for grill cloth and vinyl covering, lots of color choices, just load with drivers and go… these cabs sized to smaller Fender head chassis.

 

[Tom C]

This has been a very quick and efficient education. Thanks again to everybody. Love the gear pisctures!

 

[Multicore]

This has been a very quick and efficient education. Thanks again to everybody. Love the gear pisctures!

Come back and let us know what you end up with.

I want to hear what your G&L sounds like. I don't have a G&L but I love them and I think some of the G&L pickups are among the best around. The ASAT Classic and Special both sound killer. For a new strat or tele, G&L is what I'd get.