A speaker appears more dynamic than an other speaker

[Cote Dazur]

Why would one set of speakers appear more dynamic, more alive, at the same spl level.
Is it the frequency response?

 

[Cote Dazur]

Different cabinet resonances.yes
Markedly different baffle sizes.yes
Different diffraction characteristics.yes
Different crossover characteristics, yes
Different port interference characteristics, if either one or both are ported.yes
Driver resonance.unknown but probable
Different compression characteristics, if the SPL was high.80db average
The designer-intended horizontal listening angle might be different between the two; one straight-on and the other angled off.one set is on an angled stand.

Almost all of the above. LOL

 

[wwenze]

The points all ultimately result in changes to FR/phase/direction ---- which themselves cause/caused by reflections

FR definitely does the trick for me, specifically having sufficient bass - More in quantity compared to >1kHz while following a sensible house curve - makes the difference between a real tank cannon vs somebody trying to spit with his mouth.

 

[Cote Dazur]

@Jim Taylor if both speaker, even with all the differences in configuration had the same FR would they sound similar in relation to perceived dynamic?
Are we saying that the difference in configuration are the reason for the FR discripancy that is creating the speaker different dynamic effect or are we saying that even with very similar FR the different configuration would give the speakers they inherent character.
If it is just FR, would changing the FR with EQ/DSP theoretically make them sound close to each other?

 

[Killingbeans]

If it is just FR, would changing the FR with EQ/DSP theoretically make them sound close to each other?

I doubt it. If you try to make the on-axis responses similar, the off-axis responses will probably deviate even more from each other.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I doubt it. If you try to make the on-axis responses similar, the off-axis responses will probably deviate even more from each other.

OK, but still related to FR? Just that EQ will not be very efficient at making them similar in how they feel dynamically because of the off axis response.

 

[Killingbeans]

OK, but still related to FR?

I suspect it has much more to do with dispersion patterns (just a guess).

Horn speakers are often descibed as being more dynamic, and people speculate about compression drivers being "faster", but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a result of narrow dispersion. I imagine that receiving more direct sound energy and less from reflections, fools the brain into experiencing more "immediacy", which is then interpreted as higher dynamics.

 

[DSJR]

Some speakers can sound incredibly 'dead' (tight a*sed) and 'over damped' even when reproducing very 'airy' or reverberant recordings. Other speakers let it all hang out and can sound boomy in th ebass and sloppy up top. Not sure if passive crossovers could be so intrusive, or whether there's simply too much stuffing in the box, assuming the drivers are ok otherwise.

 

[SSS]

As said in Texas. That's the way it is. Every speaker model in every different room sounds different. To me there is no real definition of "dynamic".
It is just a listeners impression. Reasons why speakers sound different was already stated in the above comments.

 

[mhardy6647]

Well -- power compression is a thing.
I am just sayin'...

 

[SSS]

Well -- power compression is a thing.
I am just sayin'...

You are right. Speaker compression is fact. I think the dependance of SPL vs. input power can be measured.

 

[mhardy6647]

You are right. Speaker compression is fact. I think the dependance of SPL vs. input power can be measured.

I would think so -- although perhaps at the peril of the loudspeaker being tested (and/or the auditory system of bystanders, if any).

 

[fpitas]

I would think so -- although perhaps at the peril of the loudspeaker being tested (and/or the auditory system of bystanders, if any).

The right way in any event would be short high-power peaks, simulating music. Most speakers will put up with that.

 

[Count Arthur]

Is it?:

 

[ROOSKIE]

Why would one set of speakers appear more dynamic, more alive, at the same spl level.
Is it the frequency response?

Hi @Cote Dazur

This is a contentious subject for some folks. It seems to involve a lot of subjective valuing which isn't always the ASR favorite approach.

I have found dynamics and the sense of unstrained peaks very satisfying myself.
I have a few points, some of which have basically been made but here is my take.

On the more 'Objective' side =
This more or less pertains to louder listening levels

There is no replacement for displacement.
When a passage requires a large swing in SPL it is often simultaneously requiring a high output level.
This is of course dependent on the original average listening SPL.
A big woofer(s) and a horn/waveguide loaded tweeter can deliver a much higher SPL/output level cleanly if all other factors are relatively equal.

A high quality 15" woofer has more clean output vs an equally high quality 6" woofer.
A high quality dome tweeter loaded in a horn/waveguide has more clean output capability vs that same tweeter on a 180degree flat baffle.
A horn loaded compression tweeter will have even more output capability vs a horn loaded dome tweeter due to the nature of the design.
(obviously driver quality and absolute individual design limits vary but I am assuming all high quality examples of each class)

If listening in the farfield, you sit 8feet to 15feet away from each speaker.
That distance requires significant total output to hit 90+ to 100db peaks, let alone even higher peaks.
Very different from the near-field.
I really think the amount of IMD, driver compression and related effects are underestimated when driving many speakers to high levels from 8-15' away.

Power handling is DIFFERENT, just because a speaker can handle a 200watt instant dynamic blast without destruction doesn't mean it played that 'note/selection' at the 'correct' SPL.

Now factor in playing many frequencies at the same time. A blast of energy in multiple zones simultaneously. These tests are complex and rarely presented in a complete fashion.

For example, I think we often get A LOT of compression and IMD when using a naked dome tweeter at higher-high SPL vs an example in a large waveguide that is offering 6 or more DB of assistance.
We get that same issue in a 6" woofer in a small cabinet with a relatively long and small port. The small driver and small port can only energize so much air there is turbulence in the cabinet that is actually changing the tuning as well vs a 15" woofer and large short port in a large cabinet that is not yet stressed.

The voice coils may be getting very hot within a bass driver and will typically increase upper bass and decrease lower bass response - changing the tuning(perhaps making it sound bloated and less dynamic or accurate).

The same thing in a tweeter, where the high frequency extension and output is reduced (even overall output)as the tweeter heats up.

Within all of the above make sure your amp is powerful. You won't get dynamic sound from a 30 watt amp when the peak would require 200watts at a given SPL. I think a lot of folks with low powered amps are mistaking dynamics or lack of them for running out of juice.

On the more 'Subjective' side =

I did a lot of testing (subjectively) with the JBL 530 vs several similarly priced speakers and one thing that came away was how dynamic that speaker still was in the treble range at high SPL while other speakers were starting to sound less dynamic or even stressed and even 'glaring or hard'. Other wave-guided speakers have come across in a similar fashion for me, not just the 530.
Additionally I did a lot of testing with 5.25" driver based 2-ways running with a 125-150hrz high pass. It was amazing how much louder they can play and maintain clarity and a sense of dynamics vs running the bass zone. While this bass test seems obvious, it is still interesting to experience. The level of apperent clarity that some speakers lost when having to handle bass at an impactful SPL level was intersting.

Another subjective trait is that some speakers draw me into the sound more than others. Surely now that I am drawn in and paying attention every aspect of the sound is more full-filling. I am drawn in and right there and when something dynamic happens I am right there on that ride.

Dispersion wise I have had a dynamic, unstressed experience with both wide and narrow designs.

 

[Digby]

It is just a listeners impression. Reasons why speakers sound different was already stated in the above comments.

I bet the impression of dynamics would hold over a high percentage of people. I reckon most would agree on what sounded 'dead' and what sounds 'dynamic', in double blind testing.