KEF Blade 2 Meta review by Erin's Audio Corner

[Jaxjax]

That's not the same thing. You are not motivated to say something sounds good as to have people buy it and earn more commissions. When I polled membership a few years ago on adding sponsorship links to Amazon for example, the reaction was almost universally negative and some incredibly so.

I recently had a huge (#1?) retailer of pro audio gear approach me to lend me anything in their inventory for review in exchange for sponsored links. I told them I did not have sponsorships but would be happy to do the reviews without them paying any commission to me. They immediately said no! I asked why and they explained that sponsored links are their way of tracking the usefulness of this program to their business. In other words, if enough people don't follow the sponsored links, they cut you out. Even though it would have been amazing to have access to their huge list of gear to test, I was not willing to compromise this way.

If it was Sweetwater, that's sad they wouldn't do it without sponsored links. They have so much stuff it's silly. I'm bummed if it was as there my go to for gear.

 

[caught gesture]

Comments in review threads need to be specific to the product being discussed.
I think the forum rules are being ignored here…unless I’m to believe this thread is a review of a review which I guess is possible!

 

[Ron Texas]

Comments in review threads need to be specific to the product being discussed.
I think the forum rules are being ignored here…unless I’m to believe this thread is a review of a review which I guess is possible!

I believe that rule is intended to apply to reviews which originate here. Links to Erin's reviews are a different story.

 

[caught gesture]

I believe that rule is intended to apply to reviews which originate here. Links to Erin's reviews are a different story.

It seems that you are correct.

 

[CleanSound]

In other words, if enough people don't follow the sponsored links, they cut you out. Even though it would have been amazing to have access to their huge list of gear to test, I was not willing to compromise this way.

Amir, from the bottom of my heart, I truly admire and respect your principles. I hope you continue to run ASR the way you do for as long as you do.

 

[amper42]

Amir, I don't think the issue is that people are saying that Erin's subjective content is valuable (well, I'm certainly not). The problem is that people are attacking his integrity. The not at all subtle attack here is that because people *have assumed without direct evidence* that he is trying to make a career of measuring and reviewing speakers that his measurements are therefore not credible. This is offensive and I think it demeans the data-focused nature of ASR. It would not be much different if people accused you of using ASR as a sales and marketing tool for your actual day job of owning Madrona Digital, a company that could actually benefit financially from the testing and expertise that you practice on ASR. So I would ask that please at least moderate the forums to a "do no harm" standard since I do believe that both yourself and Erin demonstrate integrity with regards to the measurements, setting aside all subjective observations.

I'm not sure this claim is accurate? I have not read a single post that claimed Erin's speaker measurements were not credible. Did you read such a post in this thread? Can anyone with a straight face scientifically establish that the Blade 2 measurements are the best of any speaker measured? Wide dispersion is not part of the Blade 2 design. That's important to many listeners but barely covered in Erin's review. KEF Blade 2 sales require hype to be sold. It's part of the $28,000 price range mentality. Many other speakers at half that price or less will offer their owners just as much pleasure. Moderation in subjective audio claims is helpful if the main objective of a review is to educate listeners.

 

[prestigetone]

I'm not sure this claim is accurate? I have not read a single post that claimed Erin's speaker measurements were not credible. Did you read such a post in this thread? Can anyone with a straight face scientifically establish that the Blade 2 measurements are the best of any speaker measured? Wide dispersion is not part of the Blade 2 design. That's important to many listeners but barely covered in Erin's review. KEF Blade 2 sales require hype to be sold. It's part of the $28,000 price range mentality. Many other speakers at half that price or less will offer their owners just as much pleasure. Moderation in subjective audio claims is helpful if the main objective of a review is to educate listeners.

I think, and I mean think, the problem is that the analytics aren't being discussed. The only think I am seeing are people claiming he shouldn't be subjective at all or that he is being too subjective, which is calling into question the entire review. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

From the most recent Ascend review: "What was really nice was the spatial qualities of the speaker. Its wide directivity meant it projected a large halo around the single speaker I was listening to. This, combined with the tiny tweaks above made for stunning presentation at times. Some of my reference tracks sounded so good that my jaw fell on the floor!"

That seems to be the same language people are calling out with Erin. Erin's review did seem odd in that there were not any pictures of the speaker which he usually has at the beginning when he is talking near the beginning. And there was more subjective talk up front. For me it's all useful and everyone here talks about the qualitative aspects of sound.

 

[cavedriver]

It is not an attack to observe that having commercial links to products, monetizing channel, etc. above and beyond donations lends to doubt that he is doing this for good of man kind. And that when he gets a $30,000 speaker on loan, there is a reason to be on guard and not believe everything he says subjectively.


You see a strong disclaimer when anything related to business of Madrona overlaps that of ASR in my reviews. I don't ever put a link to buy anything from Madrona. Nor advertise for the company here. I also show that I am unbiased in this regard by giving very negative and scathing reviews of some products we could carry. Finally, Madrona is not a retail business. Has no inventory and is not in the business of hi-fi selling. This leaves people still enough to complain here and elsewhere and I address it.

You never see such disclaims in Erin's videos. Heck, you don't even know where the product came from. Same as any other youtuber. Whereas the first line in every review of mine is where the product came from.


It is insulting to me that you put me in the same boat as Erin. With a flick of a finger, I could turn on advertising on this site and make $100K+. In sharp contrast, there is not a monetization path that Erin hasn't explored and promoted, including doing so here.

Please keep in mind that there is not a single commercialized forum in the world that would allow so much promotion of his content. They would see it as direct competition to their business model and would want to have nothing to do with it. That I allow this, despite him once producing a video calling me every name in the world, should be all that I owe you all. I only have two cheeks and have already turned the other.

For those of Erin's fans who are unhappy about this, I highly suggestion you go and make a donation to him to support his work instead of asking me to do more for him.

Amir,

Two more points and I'll bow out on this one. I do not intend to offend and if I've insulted anyone please feel free to moderate my comments (and those of others that may have cursed at or behaved similarly towards others). I really can't emphasize enough that I respect what you are doing along with the work of any other people that are toppling the subjectivist juggernaut of audiophilia. I was not excited that Erin said he was increasing the subjective section of his reviews but I also didn't care because I avoid everyone's youtube videos because it's too slow to access the data.

- rather than assuming Erin's motivations make his data unreliable and if at some point Erin's data comes to be in question, we have an excellent solution that was one of the reasons you started ASR in the first place- test the same speaker on your Klippel. If his science can't be confirmed, then certainly, cry foul. Nothing less is expected of any researcher. I think there has been some overlap in the reviews in the past and I think there was at least one example where there was some disagreement but I forget where.

-Erin does say where he gets each speaker, but it's not necessarily in the videos (I don't know, again I avoid them). It's on the header page on his website where he lists all the reviews:

Warm regards,
Frank

 

[MaxBuck]

It is not an attack to observe that having commercial links to products, monetizing channel, etc. above and beyond donations lends to doubt that he is doing this for good of man kind. And that when he gets a $30,000 speaker on loan, there is a reason to be on guard and not believe everything he says subjectively.


You see a strong disclaimer when anything related to business of Madrona overlaps that of ASR in my reviews. I don't ever put a link to buy anything from Madrona. Nor advertise for the company here. I also show that I am unbiased in this regard by giving very negative and scathing reviews of some products we could carry. Finally, Madrona is not a retail business. Has no inventory and is not in the business of hi-fi selling. This leaves people still enough to complain here and elsewhere and I address it.

You never see such disclaims in Erin's videos. Heck, you don't even know where the product came from. Same as any other youtuber. Whereas the first line in every review of mine is where the product came from.


It is insulting to me that you put me in the same boat as Erin. With a flick of a finger, I could turn on advertising on this site and make $100K+. In sharp contrast, there is not a monetization path that Erin hasn't explored and promoted, including doing so here.

Please keep in mind that there is not a single commercialized forum in the world that would allow so much promotion of his content. They would see it as direct competition to their business model and would want to have nothing to do with it. That I allow this, despite him once producing a video calling me every name in the world, should be all that I owe you all. I only have two cheeks and have already turned the other.

For those of Erin's fans who are unhappy about this, I highly suggestion you go and make a donation to him to support his work instead of asking me to do more for him.

I think both you and Erin have been of immense value to those of us interested in acquiring the best fidelity possible in our audio reproduction equipment. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I see no reason to "pick sides" between the two of you. You've had some harsh things to say about Erin; that's your prerogative. But you haven't forbidden links to his reviews nor threads devoted to discussing what Erin does and says. That's good enough for me. Again: I respect both of you and the work you both do.

 

[ahofer]

I think both you and Erin have been of immense value to those of us interested in acquiring the best fidelity possible in our audio reproduction equipment. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I see no reason to "pick sides" between the two of you. You've had some harsh things to say about Erin; that's your prerogative. But you haven't forbidden links to his reviews nor threads devoted to discussing what Erin does and says. That's good enough for me. Again: I respect both of you and the work you both do.

Same. I had not heard about or seen Erin attacking you in a video. Disappointing. You two are mostly rowing in the same direction.

 

[cavedriver]

I'm not sure this claim is accurate? I have not read a single post that claimed Erin's speaker measurements were not credible. Did you read such a post in this thread? Can anyone with a straight face scientifically establish that the Blade 2 measurements are the best of any speaker measured? Wide dispersion is not part of the Blade 2 design. That's important to many listeners but barely covered in Erin's review. KEF Blade 2 sales require hype to be sold. It's part of the $28,000 price range mentality. Many other speakers at half that price or less will offer their owners just as much pleasure. Moderation in subjective audio claims is helpful if the main objective of a review is to educate listeners.

If you read back through the thread, this was the post where it went off the rails imho (post 243). After this followed the extended for/against that was just pointless. And for the zillionth time Erin very clearly says these are the best he's ever heard, not the best ever. A quick look at his review history and this should come as no surprise to anyone- they are I think the best measuring speakers he's ever measured. Certainly I would hope that no one would assault me if I proudly declare what the best speakers I've ever heard are - in fact it is precisely because of the attacks that I would get that I never share anything like this.

It's just typical YouTube hype, from a YouTube guy.

It'll all be forgotten when the next best thing comes along. Desperately trying to get a free (or heavily subsidised) pair of KEF Blade2 metas. Yawn.

 

[prestigetone]

If you read back through the thread, this was the post where it went off the rails imho (post 243). After this followed the extended for/against that was just pointless. And for the zillionth time Erin very clearly says these are the best he's ever heard, not the best ever. A quick look at his review history and this should come as no surprise to anyone- they are I think the best measuring speakers he's ever measured. Certainly I would hope that no one would assault me if I proudly declare what the best speakers I've ever heard are - in fact it is precisely because of the attacks that I would get that I never share anything like this.

People have said many times on this site xyz speaker is the best they have heard. No one even questions it.

Erin isn't liked a lot here, but I think he is having the last laugh the most because his reviews get posted nearly instantaneously and they garner a lot of discussion. Look at this one! I get that he is a reviewer but he doesn't call his reviews Erin's 100% Scientific Fact Corner. It's just an audio channel with his take and objective measurements.

 

[amper42]

Gosh, I still don't see in post 243 that Erin's Kippel measurements were disputed. I do see questions about the subjective portion of the review. I don't think this thread should exist on ASR until it has been established in writing that Erin authorizes all data he posts on his site (video/written) can be reposted elsewhere without advanced permission. The safest thing to do would be to delete all Erin's Reviews from ASR as it has been discovered they were posted without permission. Respecting the author's copyright is important to me. But that's not my call.

 

[CleanSound]

In one of his live streams, Erin stated that he makes, perhaps, $50 on a good video. As far as I can tell, his YouTube channel is a labour of love. Given the service he provides to serious audiophiles, I find it astonishing that he is criticised over minor matters.

He does ask viewers to use his Amazon links to help support his channel; I have absolutely no problems with that.

AFAIAC, Anyone who spends a 6 figure sum out of his own pocket to support the hobby fully deserves our R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Needless to say, that goes double for our gracious host, Amir, who started the non commercial measurement trend in the current Hi Fi era.

It is a labor of love no doubt. . .BUT, he also needs to pay off his loan on his $100k NFS.

I also estimate he is making $30k/year on his Patreon alone (you can guestimate based on how many patrons he got.). Then he's got affiliate links and I'm sure there are other sponsorship or work he does for manufacturers. On top of his YouTube of course. So maybe he's pulling in anywhere from $40 to $60k/year.

In the end, his videos are pretty click baity and who would say no to extra side income? Now, I still find value in his videos due to the science of loud speaker I learn from him.

Bottom line, his subjective review does give some extra color. But anyone is buying based on his subjective review ALONE is an idiot to the 10th degree.

 

[prestigetone]

It is a labor of love no doubt. . .BUT, he also needs to pay off his loan on his $100k NFS.

I also estimate he is making $30k/year on his Patreon alone (you can guestimate based on how many patrons he got.). Then he's got affiliate links and I'm sure there are other sponsorship or work he does for manufacturers. On top of his YouTube of course. So maybe he's pulling in anywhere from $40 to $60k/year.

In the end, his videos are pretty click baity and who would say no to extra side income? Now, I still find value in his videos due to the science of loud speaker I learn from him.

Bottom line, his subjective review does give some extra color. But anyone is buying based on his subjective review ALONE is an idiot to the 10th degree.

Serious question. Do you think any of his subjective takes have been off? Or do you think he bases them off solid data and embellishes. He kind of bridges the gap between the two camps.

 

[CleanSound]

Serious question. Do you think any of his subjective takes have been off? Or do you think he bases them off solid data and embellishes. He kind of bridges the gap between the two camps.

Every subjective review by anyone in this universe will always be off. Why? Because your room commands a significant amount of how speakers will sound.

And everyone in this world is prone to bias.

 

[Ron Texas]

At this point I've heard enough about Erin to last me for a while.

In an attempt to redirect the discussion to the speakers in question I ask would the appearance of these beautiful but very unusual looking loudspeakers satisfy over the long term or would the design become overpowering and unloved over time? I'm starting to think the later.

 

[prestigetone]

Every subjective review by anyone in this universe will always be off. Why? Because your room commands a significant amount of how speakers will sound.

And everyone in this world is prone to bias.

Sorry I should have been more clear. By "off" I meant were the ones he said were best measuring poorly or that he recommended you buy one that isnt good on paper.

 

[CleanSound]

Sorry I should have been more clear. By "off" I meant were the ones he said were best measuring poorly or that he recommended you buy one that isnt good on paper.

If he is basing on the data, then it's not a subjective review.

 

[BDWoody]

Just ask Andrew Robinson. At least he is straight-up and honest about cash for comment. The entire scene is so corrupt it's hilarious. Always has been, sadly.

I had an equipment manufacturer contact me directly (rather than @amirm for whatever reason) not long ago, asking if we could come to some kind of 'arrangement' where we could give him a positive review in exchange for some donation. He also didn't want to ship the item to Amir, so this was all to be a sham from start to finish.

Being able to peer even a little bit behind the curtain of what goes on in this industry is enough to make most honest people ill. I get that folks have to earn a living and all that, but one thing that differentiates us from others competing for this audience is that our host didn't start this forum for the money, and doesn't need it to survive quite well. The independence that gives him as the site owner, Adam and me as the Moderators and all of our members to speak freely without concern for what the 'sponsors' have to say is part of what makes this place unique.

If I had to worry about what you or Stuart or Pavel or Klaus or Sal might say outside of that context of relative freedom, I'd absolutely lose what's left of my tiny brain.