Extreme Snake Oil

[IPunchCholla]

You reference the outright snob. I do not see many claims around here that a Boulder amp is "better" than a Topping. However, there seems to be a different kind of snobbery afoot that is perennially frustrated (insecure, maybe?) that other people spend a whole lot of money on what makes them happy.

I don’t see much of that here. Mostly it is “It’s great if spending that much money makes you happy, just don’t claim it is better when it isn’t.”
I can see getting a Boulder Amp if I was going to spend that much money. There is something weirdly appealing to me about high power class A amps. Heck, I sometimes consider building one. A quick perusal of Boulder’s site, doesn’t turn up any snake oil by Boulder itself. Their marketing speak is pretty much exaggeration free:

There are projects like the Boulder 3060 Stereo Amplifier that contradict conventions and redefine striving for perfection. Attempts are made to push the boundaries of what is thought to be possible. These projects involve countless hours of research, experimentation, and hard work, with each step along the way creating small improvements. When accumulated, each of these small improvements mean big leaps forward. They embody the concept of what it takes to be the very best and the results are breathtaking.

Just like the Boulder 3060.

The closest they get to snake oil on their site is a customer quote:

“It seems like in the short time I was out someone came round and altered the dimensions of my living room. It has become a cathedral, soft walled and without sharp edges, with all the breathiness and decay of a truly exceptional, massive, performance space.

Breathtaking.”
GAVIN, UK

I mean, Gavin is saying it adds reverb, which I wouldn’t want associated with my amplifier, but whatever.

So as long as people don’t come here and argue that the 3060 is more revealing, or natural sounding, or… I don’t see there being much pushback. Maybe an eyebrow raised at spending orders of magnitude more than is necessary and then needing to tell strangers on the internet about, but I would raise my eyebrow at anyone who needs to tell the world about that expensive of a luxury purchase.

 

[Rhamnetin]

I don’t see much of that here. Mostly it is “It’s great if spending that much money makes you happy, just don’t claim it is better when it isn’t.”
I can see getting a Boulder Amp if I was going to spend that much money. There is something weirdly appealing to me about high power class A amps. Heck, I sometimes consider building one. A quick perusal of Boulder’s site, doesn’t turn up any snake oil by Boulder itself. Their marketing speak is pretty much exaggeration free:

The closest they get to snake oil on their site is a customer quote:

I mean, Gavin is saying it adds reverb, which I wouldn’t want associated with my amplifier, but whatever.

So as long as people don’t come here and argue that the 3060 is more revealing, or natural sounding, or… I don’t see there being much pushback. Maybe an eyebrow raised at spending orders of magnitude more than is necessary and then needing to tell strangers on the internet about, but I would raise my eyebrow at anyone who needs to tell the world about that expensive of a luxury purchase.

I'm surprised those Boulder amps actually measure well. I'd still rather have a Hypex NC2K even if I had the money for a Boulder (or realistically active studio monitors and no power amp altogether as I have now), but as you say I don't care if someone buys a Boulder.

Outside of ASR, there's a high amount of negativity towards cost effective products with top notch technical performance (e.g. Hypex, Purifi, Topping, SMSL, JDS Labs, THX), combined with snobbery that puts audiophile brands like Boulder above them, which is generally what ASR likes to dispute along with mythical claims like those cited throughout this thread as snake oil.

 

[pderousse]

Thx bot. I’m not regretting my recent donation, but rooting for you Amir.

I don’t see much of that here. Mostly it is “It’s great if spending that much money makes you happy, just don’t claim it is better when it isn’t.”
I can see getting a Boulder Amp if I was going to spend that much money. There is something weirdly appealing to me about high power class A amps. Heck, I sometimes consider building one. A quick perusal of Boulder’s site, doesn’t turn up any snake oil by Boulder itself. Their marketing speak is pretty much exaggeration free:



The closest they get to snake oil on their site is a customer quote:

I mean, Gavin is saying it adds reverb, which I wouldn’t want associated with my amplifier, but whatever.

So as long as people don’t come here and argue that the 3060 is more revealing, or natural sounding, or… I don’t see there being much pushback. Maybe an eyebrow raised at spending orders of magnitude more than is necessary and then needing to tell strangers on the internet about, but I would raise my eyebrow at anyone who needs to tell the world about that expensive of a luxury purchase.

Ok, but you don’t know if it is better than the best Purifi amps. That kind of audiophile kit is not reviewed on ASR. Maybe 3060 owners should rub your nose in it, or maybe we should not be divisive, and just welcome music appreciation, because that attitude will add to this hobby, not subtract.

 

[droid2000]

I've always hated scammers. The blatant in your face attempt to steal sucks the soul out of all life. I don't know why it's so tolerated. It's theft pure and simple. Treat it as such.

 

[TimF]

I've got an electric BBQ on the porch as gas ones aren't allowed on porches. It does an okay job on meats but with an upgrade of the power cord can I expect better BBQ'd meats. You guys know which brands deliver the meat.

 

[IPunchCholla]

Thx bot. I’m not regretting my recent donation, but rooting for you Amir.

Ok, but you don’t know if it is better than the best Purifi amps. That kind of audiophile kit is not reviewed on ASR. Maybe 3060 owners should rub your nose in it, or maybe we should not be divisive, and just welcome music appreciation, because that attitude will add to this hobby, not subtract.

Even if it is better than the best purifi amps, by the measurements, it won’t sound better. We are way past the threshold of audibilty there. At least for me and the large majority of the population. I mean there is just a chance, listening at 900 watts into a 2 ohm load, a teenager in an anechoic chamber might be able to hear some distortion on the Boulder 3060 with a 20kHz sine wave. With music, level matched, they’d be indistinguishable

 

[kemmler3D]

The closest they get to snake oil on their site is a customer quote:

This is actually a really neat/evil trick (from the perspective of the marketer), because you can make false / exaggerated claims without making false claims. Collect some customer quotes and they will typically say everything you would say if ethics were not a consideration, and you get to do it at arm's length.

Generally I just do this to give more effusive praise to a product than would sound right coming from the brand. But it works for anything. It's generally your one chance to say negative stuff about your competition directly. "F*** Bose, trash compared to this -Darryl from NYC" or "Cured my cancer -Bob in Arkansas", go nuts.

 

[Mart68]

Thx bot. I’m not regretting my recent donation, but rooting for you Amir.

Ok, but you don’t know if it is better than the best Purifi amps. That kind of audiophile kit is not reviewed on ASR. Maybe 3060 owners should rub your nose in it, or maybe we should not be divisive, and just welcome music appreciation, because that attitude will add to this hobby, not subtract.

lots of members here using expensive 'legacy' amplifiers, myself included (Krell in my case). Never had any divisive comments.

Now if I was to say 'Krell clearly has better sound quality than this cheap class D tat you're all pushing, you must all be deaf' then I would get some pushback because I'd be talking nonsense and that's not tolerated here. Which is a good thing.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

Woud'nt go as far as "radiation", "crystalline melting" sounds much smoother

Don’t call it radiation. Call it a quantum burn in

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

Not to poke the bear or to divert by analogue, but I'm just curious: Is it 'extreme snake oil' or contemnable to spend my money on what pleases me? Just here enjoying my $26 craft beer on a Friday when I know that Hams will also do the same trick ...

No. It’s snake oil when something is explicitly or even implicitly advertised to have qualities or manifest improvements that objectively are not there and are not even possible.

 

[mocenigo]

You reference the outright snob. I do not see many claims around here that a Boulder amp is "better" than a Topping. However, there seems to be a different kind of snobbery afoot that is perennially frustrated (insecure, maybe?) that other people spend a whole lot of money on what makes them happy.

Why outright snob? Around here there are not many claims that a Boulder amp is "better" than a Topping, of course, it is ASR, after all. But in many other fora you will see a lot of discussions to that effect. Like on SBAF where they even invented their own flourished terminology (plancton etc) to describe aspects. There are many audiophiles that believe that "more expensive" equates to "better quality" and drink the cool aid of phantasmagoric quantum effects or of the "superior quality" of hand wound transformers made of pure silver and whatnot. Or those that insist that ANY device with a SMPS will sound worse than ANY other device with a linear power supply.

 

[mocenigo]

I can see getting a Boulder Amp if I was going to spend that much money. There is something weirdly appealing to me about high power class A amps. Heck, I sometimes consider building one. A quick perusal of Boulder’s site, doesn’t turn up any snake oil by Boulder itself. Their marketing speak is pretty much exaggeration free:

TBH, I have the money but the only reason I do not want to buy a high powered class A amp is the fact that it requires a TON of power. It is just bad for the environment. True it would not change the things on a global scale, it would be a drop in the ocean, but, still, I prefer to waste less energy.

i am sometimes temped to buy one of these https://aliexpress.com/item/32861763572.html and transfer my amp in it...

 

[pderousse]

Why outright snob? Around here there are not many claims that a Boulder amp is "better" than a Topping, of course, it is ASR, after all. But in many other fora you will see a lot of discussions to that effect. Like on SBAF where they even invented their own flourished terminology (plancton etc) to describe aspects. There are many audiophiles that believe that "more expensive" equates to "better quality" and drink the cool aid of phantasmagoric quantum effects or of the "superior quality" of hand wound transformers made of pure silver and whatnot. Or those that insist that ANY device with a SMPS will sound worse than ANY other device with a linear power supply.

This seems true enough. My point came after the word “however.”

 

[pkane]

Black Ravioli has some advanced snake oil for sale. The electric "grounds" don't conduct any current. They just constrain the unwanted interference and noise. The record ground puck that's only £500 also does amazing things:

 

[Audiofire]

description minus snake oil equals zero, or expensive if it's a typo

 

[egellings]

Black Ravioli has some advanced snake oil for sale. The electric "grounds" don't conduct any current. They just constrain the unwanted interference and noise. The record ground puck that's only £500 also does amazing things:

View attachment 351002

View attachment 351000
View attachment 350999

Get a couple for the kids!

 

[mhardy6647]

even our colleagues @ Club Polk were amused by this innovative product (from a non-secure website):

Audio Grounding Box

Here's an image showing that 4N Cooper board...

 

[kemmler3D]

even our colleagues @ Club Polk were amused by this innovative product (from a non-secure website):

Audio Grounding Box

View attachment 351144

Here's an image showing that 4N Cooper board...

View attachment 351145

It might be snake oil, but at least it's cheap, honest-about-how-crappy-it-is snake oil.

 

[Platypus20]

I have a couple of those wooden boxes, originally they were packed with salted cod

 

[mhardy6647]

It might be snake oil, but at least it's cheap, honest-about-how-crappy-it-is snake oil.

Note that the rocks and dirt and stuff are not included. The price could skyrocket!