why are tactile transducers ignored here?

[617]

I mean butt jokes are really funny, but the Subpac product is actually a backpack or backrest sort of thing.

I actually think it's interesting becuase it's a less-explored and therefore more interesting avenue of audio reproduction.

I actually agree, it just seems intrinsically subjective. I'm curious what criteria would be used to engineer such products. I'm not sure how you'd establish what fidelity even means.

It always seemed like an extension of basshead/home theater/car audio excessiveness, which is valid but really a psychoacoustic pursuit.

My experience is that when you feel bass it's mostly in your chest, I wonder if these products could combine with headphones to create impactful portable audio.

To say nothing of inner groove distortion.

 

[Timcognito]

I actually agree, it just seems intrinsically subjective. I'm curious what criteria would be used to engineer such products. I'm not sure how you'd establish what fidelity even means.

It always seemed like an extension of basshead/home theater/car audio excessiveness, which is valid but really a psychoacoustic pursuit.

My experience is that when you feel bass it's mostly in your chest, I wonder if these products could combine with headphones to create impactful portable audio.

To say nothing of inner groove distortion.

Agree with this. These shakers just seem like excessive frivolity. But it is cool to have the floor seem like its shaking as Godzilla tramps his feet. Precision is unnecessary.

 

[fpitas]

I experienced them in my youth, in many guises. For some reason I never have pined for them.

 

[kemmler3D]

I wonder if these products could combine with headphones to create impactful portable audio.

I think that's the general idea... they claim they're able to offer more accurate bass than with subs by transmitting the bass through your body vs. through the air.

I had a look at the site and apparently the frequency spec is from 1hz - 200hz.

As for measuring such devices and evaluating their accuracy... I guess you'd basically need a whole human body rig attached to a dummy head / mic rig. Because the sound is transmitted through the body vs. through the air... I feel like a valid comparison to known high-fidelity systems would not be trivial.

Probably much easier to have someone A/B it vs. a calibrated system with traditional subs and judge it subjectively... but not very satisfying for this site's audience.

Some legitimately famous producers have endorsed it, which doesn't mean much, but I guess it at least suggests it's really more than a toy or novelty.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

so all the claims about using them for music production & monitoring is nonsense? subpac even advertises it for that purpose and has a list of music producers that they claim use subpac

I do not have any data on that, can only say that the producers I do know, never have mentioned shakers as part of their wish-list.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

This is completely false.

If it is negative there are a few reasons: vibrotactile composition/production does not exist commercially so all current applications are using a music signal rather than a dedicated haptic signal, there are no standards for FR or mounting so what you experience in any setup is random, there are few published pieces that give psychophysical guidance for installation or implementation.

It can be done well, but how and with what consistency is unclear, which is enough to turn most people off. Me as well.

Set up for movement below 15-20Hz, especially if on a solid foundation floor may work very sell, for movies. You still need a capable bass-system, you want acoustic sound down to around 15Hz as well. For music, I don't know. In one of my rooms, there was simply too much movement at very low freq, and that was just annoying. And not much music with any significant level so low, anyway.

 

[Keith_W]

Have any of you been to those "4D" cinemas? They have seats that can vibrate and tilt, fans that blow air at you, even spray water at you, scents that are sprayed in certain scenes, and of course surround sound. I could do without all the other gimmicks, but I noticed that the bass felt even more powerful when the seat was shaking as well. So yeah, I think that bass shakers have a legit place in our systems.

 

[VietnamRadioEnjoyer]

Are you saying that these haptic transducers can only work correctly if a (separate) haptic signal is implemented at the source level--something like a 7.1.1 or 2.0.1 configuration? Or it is more about EQ'ing the music signal for a an actual set of haptic transducers--something more alike room treatment?

Sony's PS5 controller "Dual Sense" uses haptics instead of vibrators common in other controllers. the idea is to transfer the feeling. like walking through mud and sand in a game should have a different feel to them. there are even open-source software that send the music signal to them instead to use them as speakers for bass-region

As for measuring such devices and evaluating their accuracy... I guess you'd basically need a whole human body rig attached to a dummy head / mic rig. Because the sound is transmitted through the body vs. through the air... I feel like a valid comparison to known high-fidelity systems would not be trivial.

I don't think simulating human body would be accurate or necessary. we measure speakers with a mic just to be sure they are flat and each individuals body adds its own HRTF and the end result is more enjoyable than headphones where we try to simulate average human

How about putting them in sand and measuring the vibrations caused? something like fremen tech from dune. might attract this guy though:

 

[Flaesh]

seats that can vibrate and tilt, fans that blow air at you, even spray water at you, scents that are sprayed in certain scenes

and pieces of plaster fall from above..

 

[Talisman]

Although it is easy to make fun of these types of products, the reality is that in my 2.2 system in certain soundtracks I can feel the sofa shaking and it is a truly fabulous sensation, getting up from the sofa I do not have the same feeling of fullness and enjoyment, and it is the same reason why music, even in quality headphones, doesn't give me the same taste, I miss that tactile bass that seems to shake my soul.
Considering that, especially in Europe, many users live in apartments with neighbors on all sides and certainly cannot use a subwoofer without arguing with the condominium, this could be, I'm not saying a solution, but at least an expedient to find a some of the tactile taste for music.
In a 5.1 system however I think it could make a lot of sense, and should probably have a dedicated channel like the lfe, to simulate earthquakes, huge walking dinosaurs etc etc....

 

[Flaesh]

I forgot. What is the name of that song (or operetta?) where on the day of the Apocalypse the volcano explodes from thunder and lightning and Godzilla farts in fear and runs away?..

 

[Rednaxela]

Not quite the same thing, but y'all probably know there is (or was?) a fad of sorts in using similar gizmos to 'build' loudspeakers using things like suspension ceiling "tiles". I guess they call them exciters*. Those might be interesting to evaluate.

This sort of thing, you know?

Home

Discover concealable, universal speaker solutions with tactile exciters that reproduce sound through almost any rigid surface you can apply them to.

www.parts-express.com

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* which makes them sound like something that are kept behind the counter at one's local pharmacy (or chemist, depending on your locale).

 

[egellings]

The real problem is training your butt to appreciate high fidelity shaking.

EQ-ing that baby could be quite the task.

 

[ryanosaur]

EQ-ing that baby could be quite the task.

This is too easy!

…I’ve always found I have good directivity with a rich warm tone, rising naturally to the low end.





As an aside, listening to The Last Wish, one of the books in The Witcher series by Andrzej Sapkowski… there was a line that stuck out… something to the effect of:
“A goat’s ass is a poor excuse for a trumpet.”