Extreme Snake Oil

[pozz]

There is, I think, something to emphasize, which is that extreme snake oil was the norm, not the exception, for audio for a long time.

 

[mhardy6647]

Weze with you. And glad that there is a pathway back to sanity after the plunge into a the rabbit hole of multiple phantorgasms of ecstatic bliss bestowed by the latest kilobuck cables. It's ASR. If nothing else, it's cheaper.

With eternal thanks and gratitude to the warped but brilliant mind, and pen, of the late cartoonist Charles Rodrigues.

 

[litemotiv]

There is, I think, something to emphasize, which is that extreme snake oil was the norm, not the exception, for audio for a long time.

And in some circles still is... one thing i find really fascinating for instance is that more than a decade ago, Stereophile founder Gordon Holt already said in an interview:

“Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me..”

Yet in (almost) 2022, you see people like Stereophile author Herb Heichert still telling the audience that diminishing returns don't exist in audio, and that expensive amplifiers are simply better than cheaper ones:

"This is from having sold really expensive stuff - i think you get what you pay for. [...] Diminishing is a question of perception, these are intangibles. You pay extra not for a lower THD and noise spec, you're paying extra for things that people haven't figured out how to measure or choose not to measure. I call them intangibles, and sometimes the intangibles become overwhelming."

 

[Trell]

And in some circles still is... one thing i find really fascinating for instance is that more than a decade ago, Stereophile founder Gordon Holt already said in an interview:

“Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me..”

Yet in (almost) 2022, you see people like Stereophile author Herb Heichert still telling the audience that diminishing returns don't exist in audio, and that expensive amplifiers are simply better than cheaper ones:

"This is from having sold really expensive stuff - i think you get what you pay for. [...] Diminishing is a question of perception, these are intangibles. You pay extra not for a lower THD and noise spec, you're paying extra for things that people haven't figured out how to measure or choose not to measure. I call them intangibles, and sometimes the intangibles become overwhelming."

Behind the youtuber in the beginning there are Genelec monitors as well as a 2A Alpha Pro Series from GIK Acoustics, so not all is lost.

 

[JSmith]

Anyone up for some $100000 interconnects?

Professional Elite RCA Interconnects

Our top of the line Professional Elite RCA Interconnects.In the world of High-End Audio, you will find a complicated mix of elitist, competitive, dedicated, and passionate audiophiles. The industry is comprised of manufacturers who have been “seeking” ultimate sound their entire careers. Those...

www.highfidelitycables.com

This cable delivers over 2.3 tons of energy magnetically!

I'm saving for these... almost there.



JSmith

 

[JRS]

Anyone up for some $100000 interconnects?

Professional Elite RCA Interconnects

Our top of the line Professional Elite RCA Interconnects.In the world of High-End Audio, you will find a complicated mix of elitist, competitive, dedicated, and passionate audiophiles. The industry is comprised of manufacturers who have been “seeking” ultimate sound their entire careers. Those...

www.highfidelitycables.com

I'm saving for these... almost there.



JSmith

Apparently terminations are extra. Pity the poor electron that tries to get out of line.

 

[JSmith]

Apparently terminations are extra.

But of course they are... honestly this thing wouldn't look out of place for sale on an adult toy site.



JSmith

 

[JRS]

But of course they are... honestly this thing wouldn't look out of place for sale on an adult toy site.



JSmith

Had that thought as well. Careful though, you may never go back to the real thing. Title cut of one of my three fave LP's. Chesky Remastered version is the one to own.

 

[litemotiv]

Anyone up for some $100000 interconnects?

"Dimensions: 38x12x12 inches; Weight: 110lbs (pair of cables)"

Wait what??

 

[litemotiv]

From the same site:

 

[Doodski]

From the same site:

Carbon conductive grease is only ~$20-$25 for a tube. I used it. It works good.

 

[antcollinet]

Compare a Pro to a Reveal you can see a huge difference but set anything else alongside and pro Elite you see ridiculous!

Never a truer word...

This cable delivers over 2.3 tons of energy magnetically!

Last time I looked, the SI unit for energy wasn't "ton" Unless we are talking E=(2300)C^2 - in which case, that is a LOT of energy - enough to power the UK for around 166 years.

 

[egellings]

Multipath-Someone who impulsively needs multiple kinds of everything he owns.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Anyone up for some $100000 interconnects?

Professional Elite RCA Interconnects

Our top of the line Professional Elite RCA Interconnects.In the world of High-End Audio, you will find a complicated mix of elitist, competitive, dedicated, and passionate audiophiles. The industry is comprised of manufacturers who have been “seeking” ultimate sound their entire careers. Those...

www.highfidelitycables.com

I'm saving for these... almost there.



JSmith

Does anyone understand what the manufacturer is trying to say the product does? I read a little voodoo science but I didn't even understand what they were trying to convey. My take away was that a strong or very strong magnet is put near a section of wire or at the end of the wire and the electrons passing through the magnetic field will be aligned in a way to produce better sound?
My question is this, what if aligning the electrons actually does the opposite and it degrades the quality of the signal? How do we know which is better, with or without the magnets? It seems kind of confusing to me as electrons are pretty much like herding cats. They will often do whatever they want unless we brute force them into a certain behavior and that force may damage the signal. Anyone got any ideas or am I missing the whole issue?
Snake oil can be very confusing!

 

[mansr]

Does anyone understand what the manufacturer is trying to say the product does?

No.

 

[JSmith]

Stop the press... who is that? No, it's not Vicky Vale... it's the "Professional Series Elite Speaker Cables", $150000 for one meter. However if you happen to have a spare $4400 after that, you can get 3m in total... bargain here is no extra either for banana vs spade terminations;

Professional Series Elite Speaker Cables

Our top-of-the-line Professional Elite Speaker Cables. In the world of High-End Audio, you will find a complicated mix of elitist, competitive, dedicated, and passionate audiophiles. The industry is comprised of manufacturers who have been “seeking” ultimate sound their entire careers. Those in...

www.highfidelitycables.com

Obviously you have to use these with the RCA interconnects for full magnetic power, so $250000+ for the matching set.



JSmith

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Stop the press... who is that? No, it's not Vicky Vale... it's the "Professional Series Elite Speaker Cables", $150000 for one meter. However if you happen to have a spare $4400 after that, you can get 3m in total... bargain here is no extra either for banana vs spade terminations;

Professional Series Elite Speaker Cables

Our top-of-the-line Professional Elite Speaker Cables. In the world of High-End Audio, you will find a complicated mix of elitist, competitive, dedicated, and passionate audiophiles. The industry is comprised of manufacturers who have been “seeking” ultimate sound their entire careers. Those in...

www.highfidelitycables.com

Obviously you have to use these with the RCA interconnects for full magnetic power, so $250000+ for the matching set.



JSmith

Drug dealers are more honest.

 

[Galliardist]

"Dimensions: 38x12x12 inches; Weight: 110lbs (pair of cables)"

Wait what??

Magnets. Lots and lots of heavy magnets. Their system is apparently backed by a patent and some research from the University of Toronto for improving SNR.

So this might be doing something measurable. I’d expect to be pretty safe backing the usual favourite - inaudible.

 

[JRS]

Never a truer word...



Last time I looked, the SI unit for energy wasn't "ton" Unless we are talking E=(2300)C^2 - in which case, that is a LOT of energy - enough to power the UK for around 166 years.

In fairness, I noticed the website used force. But that seems wrong too. Isn't it a field?

 

[Galliardist]

Last time I looked, the SI unit for energy wasn't "ton" Unless we are talking E=(2300)C^2 - in which case, that is a LOT of energy - enough to power the UK for around 166 years.

Maybe there's some relationship to toe (tonne of oil equivalent) which gets us down to 30-something kWh equivalent and still looks very, very wrong (don't use these cables if you have a pacemaker level of wrong). There's some sleight of hand calculation being done here, at a guess.