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Explain to me what I'm hearing from 45W to 80W
- Thread starter simplywyn
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- Thread Starter
- #42
No problem, I found the handy ignore function to be very useful.
- Thread Starter
- #43
Indeed, I'm well aware of the volume matching. I'm just mentioning that, even at MAX volume on my Denon, the air pressure doesn't come close to the medium volume on my Cambridge Audio.
Perceptively, Denon at max volume hurts my ears, but it still cannot produce the gut churning pressure that the cambridge audio beefs out.
So this is my question - is the power the one that is at work here? Denon is basically not able to push enough power to boost low hz to give the right amount of response?
That's basically my assumption for now. Plugging back the CXA80 makes everything feel beefy again.
From my own understanding of how speakers work:
Power to push higher hertz is far cheaper than power to push lower hertz. In order to make lower sound, you need far far more power and more amplitude of movement (more like acceleration of the cone)
Whilst denon can push the tweeter and the cone to create louder mid tones, it cannot get it to create louder lower tones as that requires far more power than it can deliver. So that's why I'm hearing really sharp sounds but missing that low pressure omph.
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Turning your amp up to maximum volume may well be driving it into clipping (the fact that hurts your ears may be evidence of this too). That’s a good way to damage your speakers. Probably not something you should do too often.
Denon power output>
70 Watts per channel power output (4ohm, 1kHz, THD: 0.7%)
Cambridge Audio power output>
80W RMS into 8 Ohms, 120W RMS into 4 Ohms
The Cambridge simply has more power output and is able to drive the woofers more at louder volume output levels and when the bass is turned up. It's at a level where the difference is there but not huge. From experience listening in sound rooms with a switchbox I usually found obviously noticeable differences when going up to ~ 120W@8R/ch from about 40W@8R/ch at a medium volume level. The Denon rates 8R @45W/ch.
70 Watts per channel power output (4ohm, 1kHz, THD: 0.7%)
Cambridge Audio power output>
80W RMS into 8 Ohms, 120W RMS into 4 Ohms
The Cambridge simply has more power output and is able to drive the woofers more at louder volume output levels and when the bass is turned up. It's at a level where the difference is there but not huge. From experience listening in sound rooms with a switchbox I usually found obviously noticeable differences when going up to ~ 120W@8R/ch from about 40W@8R/ch at a medium volume level. The Denon rates 8R @45W/ch.
- Thread Starter
- #47
Noted - only did this to my old Q350 and not the Q950's, definitely don't want to do this often.
He has you on ignore and can't see your commentary.
Doodski said:
and... sorry for the brash manner of some of the commentary here. I don't do that and was not happy to see it. I've simply answered your questions as best as can be done remotely without being there.
simplywyn said:
No problem, I found the handy ignore function to be very useful.
He has you on ignore and can't see your commentary.
Doodski said:
and... sorry for the brash manner of some of the commentary here. I don't do that and was not happy to see it. I've simply answered your questions as best as can be done remotely without being there.
simplywyn said:
No problem, I found the handy ignore function to be very useful.
I know - I saw that. My reply was to you, since your post initially stated that Denon didn't give a rating into 8 Ohms.
Oh yes, I edited that and added the 8R rating. Saw it later.
The Denon is definitely a lower power amp. 45W@8R is for desktop use in my world.
Definitely. On the other hand, the KEFs are rated at 91dB sensitivity. If that's real, then even a 45watt amp turned up all the way has to be crazy loud.
Some peeps expect loud and proud; let the eagles out per say.
I see that your Denon amp has a subwoofer output. Does it also have a system to roll off the bass to the main speakers when using a sub? If there is, is there a possibility it is turned on? The amp appears to be very clean up to 45w per channel into 8 ohms, which should be enough for moderate volumes. Are you using the source direct mode? It also has a switch to turn off digital sections when using analog sources. Are you using that?
I don't have the equipment to measure stuff myself, so I can't comment on the audibility of a slight level difference when listening to amplifiers.
I don't have the equipment to measure stuff myself, so I can't comment on the audibility of a slight level difference when listening to amplifiers.
- Thread Starter
- #56
Even at moderate volumes, it's pretty obvious difference. I'm guessing it's the lack of power that's creating this.
The sub out is filtered to 80hz and below I believe, but the mains are not touched.
turning off digital widens the soundstage a bit
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- Thread Starter
- #57
This post basically answers my question. Is there worth any effort to go to say 200w 8ohm 400w 4ohm? Will there be a difference from going from 45-80?
Oh yeah. If you notice 40w to 80 watt you'll love 200w.
It will go slightly louder and you'll have more juice for bass response to drive the woofers to the stops. 200w/ch is a nice number for sure. If your speakers need more juice then the difference will be beneficial for sure.Oh yeah. If you notice 40w to 80 watt you'll love 200w.
It will be a great way for him to blow up his speakers more efficiently!
@ the rate the Pioneer was being driven popped tweets is a sure possibility sometimes sooner or later.It will be a great way for him to blow up his speakers more efficiently!
