Explain to me what I'm hearing from 45W to 80W

[valerianf]

I believe Simplywin feedback: his speakers coupled with the Denon do not sound as good as coupled with the Cambridge audio.
Why not?
The CXA80 has maximum power consumption of 750W when the PMA 600ne has only a 180W rating.
2 possibilities when driving a low impedance load: or the Cambridge audio is very hot or the Denon is anemic.
Reading Simplywin question I understand that we are in the second case as his speakers have large 8 inches drivers with a low minimum impedance (3.2 Ohms).

Never trust the power ratings from the manufacturer or the online tests that do not provide any measurement.
It is why audioscience forum is very useful.
Thank you Amir for the reviews.

 

[Doodski]

I’ve been doing the back and forth several times, and I can hear a clear difference. I’m trying to see what is the reason.

I HIGHLY doubt it’s volume matching, as I’ve tried to do so several times and the results are completely consistent.

I noticed the same with my Sony receiver which does 170W per channel and the cxa80, I could see the difference physically - I could feel the air being moved from the hole…

Clearly delivering way more power down low… so what’s the reason? Volume matching? I don’t believe it.

Well... Volume matching would be the first thing peeps will go for. Even a small tiny difference will make one amp sound way better than the other. The only other thing I can think of is if one amp was using a cheap output IC configuration but in your case that is not the case. I can't answer your question without tests and perhaps being there.

 

[simplywyn]

I believe Simplywin feedback: his speakers coupled with the Denon do not sound as good as coupled with the Cambridge audio.
Why not?
The CXA80 has maximum power consumption of 750W when the PMA 600ne has only a 180W rating.
2 possibilities when driving a low impedance load: or the Cambridge audio is very hot or the Denon is anemic.
Reading Simplywin question I understand that we are in the second case as his speakers have large 8 inches drivers with a low minimum impedance (3.2 Ohms).

Never trust the power ratings from the manufacturer or the online tests that do not provide any measurement.
It is why audioscience forum is very useful.
Thank you Amir for the reviews.

Thank you, finally some explanation rather than “you’re doing it wrong stupid”

How do I improve this feeling? Get a more powerful amplifier? What would improve driving these 8 inch speakers

 

[Doodski]

How loud are you playing when you compare these two amps?

 

[Beave]

So the entire amp review industry is a lie? If every amp sounded the same, why does this site exist? I’m completely confused now.

The word "lie" implies that they are intentionally misleading or misrepresenting what they know is truth.

That is not the case.

Instead, they are simply reporting what they hear when they listen. And they are using no controls. So their reports are unreliable and unhelpful.

As to this site, it exists to show measurements of various pieces of gear and then to discuss those measurements as they relate to audible differences. In the vast majority of cases of electronics measured here, there are no measured differences that would be audible.

 

[Beave]

I’ve been doing the back and forth several times, and I can hear a clear difference. I’m trying to see what is the reason.

I HIGHLY doubt it’s volume matching, as I’ve tried to do so several times and the results are completely consistent.

I noticed the same with my Sony receiver which does 170W per channel and the cxa80, I could see the difference physically - I could feel the air being moved from the hole…

Clearly delivering way more power down low… so what’s the reason? Volume matching? I don’t believe it.

You have been doing the back and forth several times without level matching. So your comparisons are meaningless.

If you want to compare the ride quality of two cars, would you do that by driving one car on the freeway and the other on a dirt road? What would that tell you? NOTHING.

Even if you drove them on the same road, would you drive one at 20mph and the other at 70mph, and then draw conclusions about the ride quality? No. You would drive them at the same speed.

So when you compare two amps, you must compare them at precisely the same level, or else it tells you NOTHING.

 

[simplywyn]

How loud are you playing when you compare these two amps?

Compared both in loud and soft…

You have been doing the back and forth several times without level matching. So your comparisons are meaningless.

If you want to compare the ride quality of two cars, would you do that by driving one car on the freeway and the other on a dirt road? What would that tell you? NOTHING.

Even if you drove them on the same road, would you drive one at 20mph and the other at 70mph, and then draw conclusions about the ride quality? No. You would drive them at the same speed.

So when you compare two amps, you must compare them at precisely the same level, or else it tells you NOTHING.

Whatever I hear what I hear… you’re just pissed off. Get off your high horse. I’m an engineer by trade. The other guy offered a much better reasoning. I’m hoping he can give me some more info on how to really beef up the speakers.

 

[Beave]

I believe Simplywin feedback: his speakers coupled with the Denon do not sound as good as coupled with the Cambridge audio.
Why not?
The CXA80 has maximum power consumption of 750W when the PMA 600ne has only a 180W rating.
2 possibilities when driving a low impedance load: or the Cambridge audio is very hot or the Denon is anemic.
Reading Simplywin question I understand that we are in the second case as his speakers have large 8 inches drivers with a low minimum impedance (3.2 Ohms).

Never trust the power ratings from the manufacturer or the online tests that do not provide any measurement.
It is why audioscience forum is very useful.
Thank you Amir for the reviews.

This is terribly misleading. Do you really believe that the max power consumption ratings were determined using the same method? Do you really think that's an apples-to-apples comparison? (Hint: they don't use the same method and it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.)

The Denon is rated at something like 70watts/channel into 4 Ohms. The Cambridge is rated higher, but is he playing that loud? We have no idea, because he hasn't measured anything and has given his volume levels in %, whatever that is supposed to mean.

 

[simplywyn]

I believe Simplywin feedback: his speakers coupled with the Denon do not sound as good as coupled with the Cambridge audio.
Why not?
The CXA80 has maximum power consumption of 750W when the PMA 600ne has only a 180W rating.
2 possibilities when driving a low impedance load: or the Cambridge audio is very hot or the Denon is anemic.
Reading Simplywin question I understand that we are in the second case as his speakers have large 8 inches drivers with a low minimum impedance (3.2 Ohms).

Never trust the power ratings from the manufacturer or the online tests that do not provide any measurement.
It is why audioscience forum is very useful.
Thank you Amir for the reviews.

What amp would you recommend in that case to drive the 8inchers?

 

[Doodski]

Compared both in loud and soft… once

I can't imagine what is causing the obvious difference. if it was loud then I can see the amp with more dynamic power sounding different.

 

[Doodski]

What amp would you recommend in that case to drive the 8inchers?

I would go for that 400W@4R class D you mentioned. I like lotsa power and I tend to EQ or boost the tone controls so power is everything to me. At that power output things should be pretty clear and have lotsa thump if you desire that.

 

[Beave]

Again, we can't rule out the possibility that one amp or the other is defective or purposely designed to be non-transparent.

However, without *proper* listening tests, the odds are that other factors explain the differences.

If you do *proper* tests and can reliably tell the difference, then send each one in to Amir to test. And I guarantee there will be a measurable difference in some way that explains what you hear.

 

[Beave]

I would recommend one of these amplifiers if you want TRUE audiophile sound quality:

https://www.whathifi.com/us/features/10-worlds-most-expensive-stereo-amplifiers

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

I noticed the same with my Sony receiver which does 170W per channel and the cxa80, I could see the difference physically - I could feel the air being moved from the hole…

Clearly delivering way more power down low… so what’s the reason? Volume matching? I don’t believe it.

more air being moved and more power down low pretty much equals the definition of not volume matched

 

[simplywyn]

more air being moved and more power down low pretty equals the definition of not volume matched

lol, I don’t think so. I tried to get the same with my other amp at max volume and I couldn’t get it, never mind volume matching. Whereas the cxa80 did it at only 45% volume… so explain that to me. It was powerful enough to cause the port to chuff from air pressure (I could even feel it with my hand)

Man people here are butt hurt and miscommunicating like crazy. I’ve never met such stuck up individuals. I’d have thought this community was more mature and welcoming. I thought gaming communities were toxic but holy shit man.

You guys must not get many new members here.

 

[simplywyn]

I would go for that 400W@4R class D you mentioned. I like lotsa power and I tend to EQ or boost the tone controls so power is everything to me. At that power output things should be pretty clear and have lotsa thump if you desire that.

Are you being genuine or condescending like the other guy?

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Whereas the cxa80 did it at only 45% volume… so explain that to me.

The position of the volume knob is not the way to compare volume between different amps. Two different amps playing at the same volume knob position will almost always be playing at different volumes. You know this right?

 

[Doodski]

Are you being genuine or condescending like the other guy?

I am being 100% genuine. I like lotsa power in my audio gear. Tri-amping and active crossover or better is my idea of a system.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

It was powerful enough to cause the port to chuff from air pressure (I could even feel it with my hand)

Volume is air pressure. If one amp is producing more air pressure than the other then it is playing louder (by definition).
In that situation your volumes are not matched.

 

[Doodski]

and... sorry for the brash manner of some of the commentary here. I don't do that and was not happy to see it. I've simply answered your questions as best as can be done remotely without being there.