Sennheiser HD650 Review (Headphone)

[pwjazz]

OK, finally fixed the pre-/post-EQ distortion measurements. It was a combination of problems making it hard at first to figure out what was going on. It is actually a bit more optimized now than what I used outside of EQ. Will retrofit the fix into there later. I updated the graph in the review. Here it is as well:

The level is not matching the standardized measurements due to allowance for digital headroom in Roon. But for comparison, it should be fine.

Here is the actual equalization effect on frequency response by the way:

View attachment 101747

Notice how there is still a sharp roll off below 20 Hz. And that I did not push up the 20 to 30 Hz much over neutral level.

A logarithmic scale on your distortion measurements would provide better resolution for the lower distortion regions in the higher frequencies. FWIW, use of a log scale is pretty standard in the headphone measurement world.

 

[DosThou]

I've come to to conclusion that whenever people talk about needing 'more power' for headphones and how they think 'neutral' objectively good-measuring amps sound 'digital', it's because the majority of these phones are simply so bass starved and almost never about 'synergy', and then of course amps with lots and lots of distortion ends up sounding 'better'. Honestly haven't looked back to headphone world again after getting absolutely disappointed by HD6XX (and a slew other).

 

[Jimbob54]

Oh man, you bought the 6XX (aka 650) and the HD600....you may as well just have one of those considering they're so similar, EQ will flip between the two! 6XX (650) has a slightly more capable ability to playback the bass will a little less distortion, that's about it. Sell one of those bad boys and eek some money back!

Or maybe they just auditioned?

 

[Robbo99999]

Or maybe they just auditioned?

(sig)

 

[Robbo99999]

I've come to to conclusion that whenever people talk about needing 'more power' for headphones and how they think 'neutral' objectively good-measuring amps sound 'digital', it's because the majority of these phones are simply so bass starved and almost never about 'synergy', and then of course amps with lots and lots of distortion ends up sounding 'better'. Honestly haven't looked back to headphone world again after getting absolutely disappointed by HD6XX (and a slew other).

Good point/observation about how that can happen.....EQ though solves it for us in the know.

 

[Jimbob54]

(sig)

Fair point, doesn't show on mobile. Big sennheiser fan

 

[LTig]

[..]When EQ'ed to Harman bass you get more 'body' and 'impact' but not everyone prefers this.

Yep, count me in to not being everyone. The first time I auditioned the HD580 of a colleague in 1994 we played some organ music by Bach. With the deep notes I felt my breast vibrating and wanted to switch off the speakers (Magnepan 1.6, no sub) but they were already off. I did not feel any need for more bass (and bought my own pair next day, to replace a 15 year old HD130).

I inherited a DT990 Pro and used your FR curve to bring down the bass with EQ (-2dB @ 80Hz Q=0.5) because I think it's too much.

I also tried to EQ my HD800 (+11dB @ 20 Hz Q=0.5, and of course -8dB @ 6kHz Q=2) but on some tracks bass is too much for me, e.g. the bass drum in Nils Frahms #2 starting at 1:27. OTOH for Terje Isungsets Failing Sun the Bass EQ helps at lower volumes.

 

[LTig]

A new entry to be tested...

https://m.thomannmusic.com/hedd_heddphone.htm

No way I wear a headphone that heavy. More than 700g!!! My HD800 @ 330g is at my upper limit, the AKG K812 @ 390g I tried in 2014 was too heavy on the long run.

 

[hmscott]

I am planning on getting the new HD560s to see if I like it as much as the HD598cs with a balanced cable 4.4mm connected to the A90 / M15, $200 is a bit pricey but it might be worth it. Super light, good bass, so I've heard.

IEM's are a lot lighter than any headphone, and these days they are putting out some amazing sounding products at very reasonable prices. $300 and under there are many many choices, but for me I try to stay under $100 - occasionally there are standout's that are worth stretching a bit.

The DT880 600 ohm sounds great on the "cold sterile" D90 MQA, and it has great bass, and there is enough power to drive it to enjoyable listening levels for hours and hours. I do take care of my hearing, so I'm probably not listening as loud as some others.

it's a tough thing to compare headphones and IEM's as to which sounds more "real", well neither sound real if you have attended much live music in your life, but it's a nice virtualization of reality - enjoyable with the right balance for your own tastes. Speakers, same thing, even the most expensive, not real.

The $30 Blon BL-03 with AZLA Sedna ML tips and a nice 16-core cable - all coming to around $60 is a real eye opener. The BL-05 and BL-01 are in their own ways also amazing and inexpensive. No need to spend thousands to get enjoyable listening with those around. KZ of course does great things for around $40-$50 too.

I listened to the HD650 / HD800, they are not for me, but the HD820 is another story - and it's on sale for $1866 still a few places...sigh.

 

[bobbooo]

At the price the variation from capsule to capsule is likely to be higher than more expensive headphones.
With a dynamic system there are probably never 2 capsules (or speaker drivers) exactly the same, what will vary will be the deviation from average and, maybe, the scrap rate.

This isn't necessarily the case. HD650 on the left, SRH440 on the right (comparable frequency response channel mismatch):

HD650 vs HyperX Cloud Alpha ($80 gaming headphone):

Then for a bit more (they've been as low as $120), you can get the HifiMan HE4XX, a few units of which have been professionally measured by Oratory and he's said they have some of the lowest unit variation he's seen. HD650 vs HE400i ($140, ostensibly similar driver/enclosure to HE4XX):

The HyperX and HifiMan even beat the over 10 times more expensive $1500 HD800S in terms of weighted frequency response channel mismatch (1.47 for the latter). So, yet again, we see that price is not a good indicator of quality when it comes to headphones.

(Data from Rtings)

 

[Robbo99999]

I am planning on getting the new HD560s to see if I like it as much as the HD598cs with a balanced cable 4.4mm connected to the A90 / M15, $200 is a bit pricey but it might be worth it. Super light, good bass, so I've heard.

IEM's are a lot lighter than any headphone, and these days they are putting out some amazing sounding products at very reasonable prices. $300 and under there are many many choices, but for me I try to stay under $100 - occasionally there are standout's that are worth stretching a bit.

The DT880 600 ohm sounds great on the "cold sterile" D90 MQA, and it has great bass, and there is enough power to drive it to enjoyable listening levels for hours and hours. I do take care of my hearing, so I'm probably not listening as loud as some others.

it's a tough thing to compare headphones and IEM's as to which sounds more "real", well neither sound real if you have attended much live music in your life, but it's a nice virtualization of reality - enjoyable with the right balance for your own tastes. Speakers, same thing, even the most expensive, not real.

The $30 Blon BL-03 with AZLA Sedna ML tips and a nice 16-core cable - all coming to around $60 is a real eye opener. The BL-05 and BL-01 are in their own ways also amazing and inexpensive. No need to spend thousands to get enjoyable listening with those around. KZ of course does great things for around $40-$50 too.

I listened to the HD650 / HD800, they are not for me, but the HD820 is another story - and it's on sale for $1866 still a few places...sigh.

HD560S might be a good shout, I thought I remembered hearing that they have angled drivers, so I looked them up.....and yes they do indeed have angled drivers (at following link), although quite why they say "Angled transducers recreate the optimal listening position every time, without the need for acoustic room treatment" I do not know, because there ain't no room!
https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/hd-560-s-audiophile-headphone-high-end-over-ear
Yeah, so those angled drivers might help to deliver a great open soundstage, being my main point. Not only that if you look at the Oratory measurements I find that curve very attractive (see following link)!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7amvtfabcizrc12/Sennheiser HD560S.pdf?dl=0
If you're a fan of the Headphone Harman Curve then you can see only minimal corrections required, and for an open backed headphone they've got some impressive bass extension, so wouldn't need a much bass boost to bring them up to the target, which in turn might make you think that distortion is gonna be quite low in the bass. I think there's great potential in this headphone from the information I'm seeing! (I've not read any other reviews or measurments so don't know if there are some screaming faults that anyone has identified.)

EDIT: although RTings didn't give it particularly good soundstage rating, below that of HD600, and for me the soundstage of HD600 is pretty lacking.....but having said that I'm not sure how accurate this soundstage rating is....it puts HE4XX above my K702, I've ordered HE4XX because of this as a major reason so I'll soon know:
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/passive-soundstage

 

[bobbooo]

HD560S might be a good shout, I thought I remembered hearing that they have angled drivers, so I looked them up.....and yes they do indeed have angled drivers (at following link), although quite why they say "Angled transducers recreate the optimal listening position every time, without the need for acoustic room treatment" I do not know, because there ain't no room!
https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/hd-560-s-audiophile-headphone-high-end-over-ear
Yeah, so those angled drivers might help to deliver a great open soundstage, being my main point. Not only that if you look at the Oratory measurements I find that curve very attractive (see following link)!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7amvtfabcizrc12/Sennheiser HD560S.pdf?dl=0
If you're a fan of the Headphone Harman Curve then you can see only minimal corrections required, and for an open backed headphone they've got some impressive bass extension, so wouldn't need a much bass boost to bring them up to the target, which in turn might make you think that distortion is gonna be quite low in the bass. I think there's great potential in this headphone from the information I'm seeing! (I've not read any other reviews or measurments so don't know if there are some screaming faults that anyone has identified.)

Continuing from my previous post, Rtings found the HD560S to have a weighted frequency response channel mismatch of 2.21, which is relatively poor, and could impact imaging ability.

 

[Robbo99999]

Continuing from my previous post, Rtings found the HD560S to have a weighted frequency response channel mismatch of 2.21, which is relatively poor, and could impact imaging ability.

Well that's bad, praps just one sample, but still. That's something that could be EQ'd out, but it's not really that easy to measure individual drivers in the comfort of your own home for most people! Yes, so they either got a faulty one, or a large proportion of them are not matched well. I still think they have some promising qualities though, but for sure I wouldn't want a headphone with a channel mismatch, that is very fundamental.

EDIT: thinking about it, couldn't you match channels yourself by using Equaliser APO to cancel one channel and then identify the lowest negative preamp you could hear a noise from say Left Channel, then you'd do the same with the Right Channel and see the difference between the two negative preamp values - that would be your channel matching differentiation assuming that your left & right ear both have equal hearing capabilities. You could even do it over multiple spaced frequencies over the whole frequency range to get an average deviation on which to base it on. Although I myself know that my right ear is not quite as good as my left due to (I think) letting off a child's cap pistol right near my right ear when I was about 6 yrs old, so you don't want to correct for real hearing differentiation between left & right ears, because the brain compensates for that in everyday life, so you have to bare that in mind if you're doing this correction experiment I'm talking about.

 

[Jimbob54]

Continuing from my previous post, Rtings found the HD560S to have a weighted frequency response channel mismatch of 2.21, which is relatively poor, and could impact imaging ability.

Worth quoting that in context of their actual review though....

"The Sennheiser HD 560S's stereo imaging performance is great. Their weighted group delay falls beneath the audibility threshold, yielding tight bass and transparent treble reproduction. The L/R drivers are well-matched in regards to amplitude and phase response, with very minor frequency mismatch. "

 

[Tup3x]

Oh man, you bought the 6XX (aka 650) and the HD600....you may as well just have one of those considering they're so similar, EQ will flip between the two! 6XX (650) has a slightly more capable ability to playback the bass will a little less distortion, that's about it. Sell one of those bad boys and eek some money back!

I can only use my "HD 600" if I take my HD 58X apart since I happen to have just two HD 600 driver capsules. They do have other differences other than frequency response, fore example, HD 600 plays a bit louder. Out of all HD 600 series headphones (including HD 58X) HD 660S is the most different.

 

[Cortes]

This isn't necessarily the case. HD650 on the left, SRH440 on the right (comparable frequency response channel mismatch):

View attachment 101856

HD650 vs HyperX Cloud Alpha ($80 gaming headphone):

View attachment 101857

Then for a bit more (they've been as low as $120), you can get the HifiMan HE4XX, a few units of which have been professionally measured by Oratory and he's said they have some of the lowest unit variation he's seen. HD650 vs HE400i ($140, ostensibly similar driver/enclosure to HE4XX):

View attachment 101863

The HyperX and HifiMan even beat the over 10 times more expensive $1500 HD800S in terms of weighted frequency response channel mismatch (1.47 for the latter). So, yet again, we see that price is not a good indicator of quality when it comes to headphones.

(Data from Rtings)

There must be more than frequency responce. It's not the same put the HD800s/HD820s over the head and listeten to music than the HD600/650 or other cheaper models in the Senn's line. I warranty you that one only needs seconds to know what sounds better (at least for my ears).

 

[Robbo99999]

Continuing from my previous post, Rtings found the HD560S to have a weighted frequency response channel mismatch of 2.21, which is relatively poor, and could impact imaging ability.

Worth quoting that in context of their actual review though....

"The Sennheiser HD 560S's stereo imaging performance is great. Their weighted group delay falls beneath the audibility threshold, yielding tight bass and transparent treble reproduction. The L/R drivers are well-matched in regards to amplitude and phase response, with very minor frequency mismatch. "

And also best to see it in the actual frequency response graphs:
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#18492/4012

 

[Jimbob54]

And also best to see it in the actual frequency response graphs:
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#18492/4012

That link opened to Raw FR R for me - but selecting the FR (top) graph that shows both drivers shows a big gap between L&R 1-3k. So, as ever, stats and words dont quite align. Or perhaps, need to all be taken in the round.

 

[bobbooo]

Worth quoting that in context of their actual review though....

"The Sennheiser HD 560S's stereo imaging performance is great. Their weighted group delay falls beneath the audibility threshold, yielding tight bass and transparent treble reproduction. The L/R drivers are well-matched in regards to amplitude and phase response, with very minor frequency mismatch. "

And it's worth putting that quote in terms of the context of all the headphones they've measured, which include some truly awful ones with weighted frequency response channel mismatch of up to 9.5. 2.2 may be 'great' compared to 9.5, but not compared to many decent, similarly priced (or cheaper) headphones which have better channel matching, hence why I said the HD560S is relatively poor in that regard.

 

[bobbooo]

That link opened to Raw FR R for me - but selecting the FR (top) graph that shows both drivers shows a big gap between L&R 1-3k. So, as ever, stats and words dont quite align. Or perhaps, need to all be taken in the round.

Unless based on blind, level-matched listening, I find it's usually best to just ignore the words and look at the graphs/numbers, even on sites that have a scientific leaning, to take the myriad possible subconscious cognitive biases and interpretation of words out of the equation.