Source computer's HUGE effect on fidelity

[Count Arthur]

How much influence has the operating system? Is linux or windows more audiophile?

I think any OS can work with the right media player software. For example, JRiver for Windows can be set up bypass all of Windows audio shenanigans. Don't know much about Apple, or Linux, but there are versions of Linux that are supposed to be optimised for audio: https://www.ap-linux.com/

 

[Rick Sykora]

I have passed on amplifiers with fans, so never seriously considered using a PC as an audio source. If you could run fanless, how do you know which PCs have clean output signals to feed your DAC? Am pretty sure that many folks are way less technical than ASR members. If so, a fair number are just slapping a DAC on their PC and are blissfully listening to compromised content?

Forgive if am missing something here, but working on computers for over 40 years, my music playback equipment was an escape from my work. So, may have had a predisposition not to ”cross the streams”. Should I reconsider?

 

[sejarzo]

Have you considered a small form factor PC from Dell, HP, etc.?

I actually bought one of those for $25 a few months ago as surplus from a local school system. It had Linux installed, but it had a valid Win 7 CoA that allowed me to install Win 10. It ran very quietly...until the HP upgrade software suggested that it needed a BIOS update to fix a security issue. Now the damn CPU fan runs at such a higher speed all the time that I'd never be able to use it as a HT PC.

 

[majingotan]

If you could run fanless, how do you know which PCs have clean output signals to feed your DAC?

The latest Windows update (I think it's version 1909) have WASAPI push option on ALL applications. Before you would need something like ASIO4All for YouTube, now you can WASAPI Push YouTube on sound control panel. BTW, applications like Audirvana that I use for DSD playback (DoP) will use 2GB of RAM alone for playing back DSD256. CPU power doesn't matter as you can see DSD256 doesn't even use 1% at 0.8 GHz of my dual core Surface Pro laptop

 

[digicidal]

As far as I know, none of the NUC variants are fanless, but have a blower style fan, similar to a laptop...

17dba will effectively be silent from more than a few inches away.

To the first part... none of them are fanless from Intel - but they can all be made that way for not much extra cost (I did all my workstations at the office this way). There's also options for a full passive conversion to desktops if you've got the room. However, I've always been a "fan" of Streacom - and that's what I'm using for my Roon Core which is 24/7 with fairly high specs.

To the second part... IME very few "<20dB" fans actually were. In other words, as an average SPL they may have been - but in certain frequencies they were much louder. The sound profile of the fan is much more critical than the average SPL. If it's a very low drone or whoosh... it will mostly disappear with music - certainly much easier than a 2kHz drone or worse, a 5kHz whine. YMMV.

 

[pavuol]

How much influence has the operating system? Is linux or windows more audiophile?

I heard the only OS that handles digital data properly is blackPanther OS (Hungarian Linux distribution). Rumours claim it is still Beta, final version will be called pinkPanther OS. Don't know why the shift from black to pink and not viceversa (in a more serious manner) but I guess it's just the weirdness of Linux (&/or audiophile) community...

 

[Count Arthur]

I actually bought one of those for $25 a few months ago as surplus from a local school system. It had Linux installed, but it had a valid Win 7 CoA that allowed me to install Win 10. It ran very quietly...until the HP upgrade software suggested that it needed a BIOS update to fix a security issue. Now the damn CPU fan runs at such a higher speed all the time that I'd never be able to use it as a HT PC.

I don't have one of these, but boot into the BIOS and take a look to see if there's a fan profile setting.

 

[mansr]

I heard the only OS that handles digital data properly is blackPanther OS (Hungarian Linux distribution). Rumours claim it is still Beta, final version will be called pinkPanther OS. Don't know why the shift from black to pink and not viceversa (in a more serious manner) but I guess it's just the weirdness of Linux (&/or audiophile) community...

Define properly. The way I see it, the OS has, in this context, one job: to move audio samples from the application to the DAC. If it can do this without altering the data in any way, it's doing it properly. All the usual operating systems (Windows, Mac, Linux) can, with some coercion, be made to do this. Linux is probably the easiest since the basic ALSA drivers do only that and nothing else. Unfortunately, desktop oriented distributions, in a misguided attempt to be friendly, include the idiotic Pulseaudio mixer which is nothing but trouble. Thankfully, it can be bypassed or uninstalled entirely. Audio oriented distributions generally have a sane configuration out of the box. I don't know what this panther system (whatever its colour) is, but assuming it's a Linux build aimed at audio, it's far from the only one.

 

[Nicolaas]

How much influence has the operating system? Is linux or windows more audiophile?

In 2010 I started with Foobar2000 on Vista and with a Euro 100.- budget USB dac. And the great sound was a revelation to me. Then, because my 3 years old Vaio was getting to slow, I installed Linux Mint 15 Xfce, my first Linux experience (as a pensionado) . Linux brought back my fun in computing so both my desktop and laptop do only have Linux Mint Xfce. I am a simple end user but the Linux community is so patient and supportive! Linux with Audacious/ALSA on my Musical Fidelity V90 DAC also sounds great but I do not think I can hear the difference with Windows in a blind test. Linux also has a dedicated OS, Audiophile Linux but I never used that. Maybe the big advantage of this OS is that all priority goes to audio and therefore there is less chance for glitches/dropouts...

I also use a Samsung tab a 10.5 with 3 Gb RAM and 64 GB memory and Android 9.
My player is USB Audio Player PRO and I connect to my current D90 dac with an OTG cable. I must say that for some reason it seems that the sound from my tablet plays with so much ease and is very clean but maybe that is only suggestion. But I even consider to replace my Vaio with a dedicated Samsung tab A tablet with docking station and permanent OTG connection to my D90. The tab A 10.1 supports microSD cards upto ca 500 GB so that is 1500 lossless FLAC CDs in 16b 44.1k. I do still have an I5 desktop for general computing stuff.
Oh and when playing from my Vaio laptop and pausing and turn up the volume of my amp (half open which is much louder than normal) then I hear a tubelike "cauliflower" noise. Also moving the mouse and starting apps do give a dedicated sound in my speakers. I solved this with a cheap USB isolator to the Musical fidelity dac but the Topping D90 dac does not support this simple usb isolator.
The background of my cheap Samsung tab A 10.5 (2018) is dead silent.
Hope I can help anyone with these simple experiences/considerations in this high tech group...

 

[Nicolaas]

As far as I know, none of the NUC variants are fanless, but have a blower style fan, similar to a laptop:

With other cases, you can always replace the fans with better qualtity, quieter fans, for example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/NF-R8-redu...85P77XQP2JV&psc=1&refRID=C4J5CBFQJ85P77XQP2JV

17dba will effectively be silent from more than a few inches away.

Thanks for the info, I hate the sound of my Sony vaio fan when playing at low levels in the night. So I definitely will look further. Maybe a dedicated cheap Samsung tab A 10.1 with USB audioplayer PRO and 500 GB uSD card with a permanent OTG connection to the D90. This combination really sounds great to me!

 

[Count Arthur]

To the second part... IME very few "<20dB" fans actually were. In other words, as an average SPL they may have been - but in certain frequencies they were much louder. The sound profile of the fan is much more critical than the average SPL. If it's a very low drone or whoosh... it will mostly disappear with music - certainly much easier than a 2kHz drone or worse, a 5kHz whine. YMMV.

Better quality case fans are not only quieter overall for a given airflow, but also tuned to stay away from the whiney end of the noise spectrum. Noctua have a really good reputation for low noise, long lasting fans that will almost certainly be better than the cheap fans that come pre-installed in most PCs or PC cases: https://noctua.at/en/products/fan. Also, fans don't last forever, so if you have an older PC that's been running for thousands of hours, the fan bearings may be a bit worn and worn bearings can make a whiney noise, especially smaller diameter fans that spin at higher RPM.

Bigger fans are always quieter for a similar airflow, obviously, so if you have space for a full or mid size PC, it's easier to make it quite than a small case that can only accommodate small diameter fans.

Most modern PCs/Motherboards have fan headers to which you can connect the fans. These headers allow the BIOS to increase the fan speed as the CPU temperature rises. Playing music isn't very taxing on the CPU, so the system should remain fairly quiet. If your motherboard/BIOS doesn't allow for fan speed control, you can buy manual fan controllers, or cables that will reduce fan speed, however, these will make your system run hotter, so you should keep an eye on your temperatures:

https://www.howtogeek.com/275339/how-to-auto-control-your-pcs-fans-for-cool-quiet-operation/
https://www.pcerror-fix.com/pc-fan-controller-software

If you have a set-up where the speakers are 6 to 10 feet away, with your amps, etc. between them, having a PC with quiet fans at a similar distance from you is unlikely to be an issue, especially when music is playing.

Also, unless you live somewhere very quiet, or have a soundproofed room, it's likely that background noise will be somewhere in the region of 20 to 30dBa and quiet fan noise won't be that noticeable:

 

[pavuol]

I don't know what this panther system (whatever its colour) is,/QUOTE]

i was joking, in a manner this thread started..

 

[sejarzo]

I don't have one of these, but boot into the BIOS and take a look to see if there's a fan profile setting.

I did. Nothing there. It was also one of those BIOS upgrades that can't be reversed.

 

[Soniclife]

Also, unless you live somewhere very quiet, or have a soundproofed room, it's likely that background noise will be somewhere in the region of 20 to 30dBa and quiet fan noise won't be that noticeable:

Most background noise is at low frequencies, so if the fan makes noise above a few hundred Hertz it can easily be audible, a single dB number isn't enough to know for sure.
I hate fan noise, an irrational amount, all my computers are truly silent.

 

[Soniclife]

I did. Nothing there. It was also one of those BIOS upgrades that can't be reversed.

There might be an app from the manufacturer to install in the OS that has options over fan noise.

 

[Totoro]

How much influence has the operating system? Is linux or windows more audiophile?

It has to be Arch Linux. Anything else, especially Ubuntu based distros are inadequate.

/S

 

[Martin]

Then I better rush out and buy me one of these babies: https://taikoaudio.com/product/sgm-extreme/

Martin

 

[Count Arthur]

Then I better rush out and buy me one of these babies

Never mind that, WTF is this?: https://taikoaudio.com/product/setchi-d-3-grounding-block/

incidentally, I always find my system sounds best when my speaker cables are perpendicular to the nearest ley lines.

 

[tomtoo]

It has to be Arch Linux. Anything else, especially Ubuntu based distros are inadequate.

/S

Mhhh that's bad. How much CD's get produced on win or even apple? No wonder that real audiophiles prever vinyl.

 

[pavuol]

Never mind that, WTF is this?: https://taikoaudio.com/product/setchi-d-3-grounding-block/

incidentally, I always find my system sounds best when my speaker cables are perpendicular to the nearest ley lines.

We do not have much of an understanding of how this sonic signature migration occurs, but it is identifiable and can work nicely in some systems.
Audiophiles in Asia, Europe and the US have found that Setchi’s can improve transparency, clarity, resolution of details and tonality.

But we DO have understanding how to pump money from these fools!