TOPPING D90 III、TOPPING D50 III

[Gymboy]

For that kind of money, one can buy Denafrips Ares 12th, 4kg of R2R digital to analog converter, putting sigma delta in similar price range to shame when it comes to tonality and stage.

 

[Rhamnetin]

For that kind of money, one can buy Denafrips Ares 12th, 4kg of R2R digital to analog converter, putting sigma delta in similar price range to shame when it comes to tonality and stage.

Sarcasm? The Ares 2 isn't bad, but is worse than much cheaper SMSL and Topping and JDS Labs DACs. From my experience, the signature attributes of most of these discrete R2R DACs (including the Denafrips Venus I owned) are high frequency rolloff, poor SINAD, audible distortion and usually not very good reconstruction filters. The Ares II below generally being an exception, but the Topping D90 III and SMSL SU-X have got to be the best measuring DACs in the world in virtually every metric.

Denafrips ARES II USB R2R DAC Review

This is a review and measurements of the Denafrips ARES II USB DSD DAC based on R2R architecture. It is on kind loan from a member. I think it costs US $680 so not too high for a custom DAC. The overall look of the ARES II is rather plain: The LED indicators are quite tiny so standing top...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Gymboy]

One of best DACs and amplifiers does not measure great but sound best there is. Numbers and graphs give just a hint of a sound, ear tells the rest.

 

[BrokenOath]

One of best DACs and amplifiers does not measure great but sound best there is. Numbers and graphs give just a hint of a sound, ear tells the rest.

This is where subjectivity comes in. What sounds best to one doesn't necessarily sound best to others.

 

[Rhamnetin]

This is where subjectivity comes in. What sounds best to one doesn't necessarily sound best to others.

Yup. The R2R DACs different enough to sound immediately different sound horrible and low res to me personally (like the Denafrips Venus even in oversampling mode), because I'm hearing distortion and a lack of upper frequencies.

 

[Esprit]

This is where subjectivity comes in. What sounds best to one doesn't necessarily sound best to others.

False

 

[asrUser]

I am so satisfied with the SMSL SU-10, I don't care much for Topping anymore.

Topping, SMSL, Gustard? It's all the same.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Topping, SMSL, Gustard? It's all the same.

Except Gustard costs a lot more for some reason.

 

[asrUser]

Except Gustard costs a lot more for some reason.

They got some streamers so maybe that's the reason?

 

[Akary]

when is the review of the d90 sabre?

 

[Rhamnetin]

when is the review of the d90 sabre?

I do wonder if Topping and SMSL will send or have sent their latest DACs to Amir. Although they do provide a detailed set of measurements for each, it's necessary for everyone to be continuously validated by third parties. I can see about eventually sending the SMSL equivalent (SU-X) to Amir, but there's a lot of stuff I'd rather send first.

 

[Bleib]

Any news on release date for D50 III?

 

[packeted]

I have the original D90 and was actually a little tempted by the D90 III but my main concern is the remote. I stream primarily from an Apple TV 4K that passes audio via S/PDIF from my LG G3 TV. I trained the Apple TV remote to control volume on the D90 so have a single remote to rule it all... With the new bluetooth remote, I don't think I can train the Apple remote to control it. Does the III also have an IR receiver or bluetooth only?

 

[oli67]

They got some streamers so maybe that's the reason?

I think it's mainly the dual linear PSU (the A26, X26 and R26 provide separate toroidal transformes for the digital and analog circuit) . The D90 uses a very cheap single switching PSU...

 

[Rhamnetin]

I think it's mainly the dual linear PSU (the A26, X26 and R26 provide separate toroidal transformes for the digital and analog circuit) . The D90 uses a very cheap single switching PSU...

I was thinking of Gustard models without a streamer built in. The SMSL SU-X also has two linear power supplies and is $100 more than the D90 III (making it $1k), but I see Gustard has a tendency to include a SHARC DSP and ARM processor even in models without streaming capability, so that adds up.

 

[dogmamann]

They can sum channels and get better (lower) noise.

Which is completely useless as the single DAC chip itself was having noise levels way below audibity threshold. 2 chips - marketing; simple as that.

 

[dogmamann]

I think it's mainly the dual linear PSU (the A26, X26 and R26 provide separate toroidal transformes for the digital and analog circuit) . The D90 uses a very cheap single switching PSU...

Yet Topping measures better meaning, they know how to do their job better than bustard can dream of

 

[192kbps]

The D50 III will go on sale at the end of February with PEQ, that's confirmed.

 

[Rhamnetin]

The D50 III will go on sale at the end of February with PEQ, that's confirmed.

If that's true, then all things considered the D50 III will probably be their best DAC.

 

[BrokenOath]

Which is completely useless as the single DAC chip itself was having noise levels way below audibity threshold. 2 chips - marketing; simple as that.

To my ears dual chip devices sound better; fuller sound, bass is stighter and fuller, and extended sound stage. I think a lot depends on the other equipment in the chain. I have just finished testing that theory using the following scenarios:
Scenario 1: SMSL-su10 -> Musical Paradise MP-701 MK2 tube preamp->Classe CA100 amp-> KlipschHorn full range speakers
Scenario 2: SMSL-su10 -> Musical Paradise MP-701 MK2 tube preamp->Classe CA100 amp-> Klipsch Cornwall full range speakers
Scenario 3: SMSL-su10 -> Musical Paradise MP-701 MK2 tube preamp->Classe CA100 amp-> Klipsch Heresy bookshelf speakers

With the speakers being the only difference.
Scenario 1 and 2 substantially sound better than scenario 3 (culprit the smaller bookshelf speakers can not reproduce the full range of the sound). Scenario 1 and 2 sound almost the same, with scenario 1 having a slight edge.

Repeated the above by simply changing the DAC with a Topping D90. It is right away clear to my ears that the topping provides a thinner sound, smaller sound stage, more prominent highs with the equipment of scenario 1-2, but scenario 3 sounds the same to my ears regardless of the DAC.

Repeated the above again by replacing the DAC with a FIIO M17 (the M17 uses the same dual ES9038 pro chips as the su-10). Again, right away I can hear a fuller sound reproduction, and bigger sound stage, however the M17 sounds slightly clearer that the su-10, but both are substantially better that the single chip Topping D90 when listening via the full range speakers, again no discernable difference when using the bookshel speakers.

My conclusion, as proven above, of course you won't hear any difference if the other equipment in the chain have limitations.