Hearing loss: a hobby fades away

[UWinWithWin]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227015/

https://www.speareducation.com/spea...ss-in-the-dental-practice-whats-the-real-risk

A couple more articles.

Worth a dentist testing the noise output from the common tools to confirm that it's all high frequency.

One study is attached.

The latter is an article from a major continuing education source.

So hearing loss from work exposure in a dental setting is real.

My main question is, how can I talk to patients and have hearing protection lol

 

[Soniclife]

I don't see any measurement of the noise spectrum in those reports, as Amir says if all the loud noise is high frequency then it's easy to block that, and let lots of low frequency through, for easy speech, but it's vital to know what frequencys are loud.

 

[amirm]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227015/

There is very good data in that report. I don't think it points to a credible cause of hearing loss though:

Surely you don't spend 8 hours listening to these noises continuously. Many of us have this level of sound in the form of headphone and TV listening.

Regardless, one thing you could do is to be some fabrics on the wall and ceilings to act as absorbers. Fabric paintings, soft acoustic tiles on the ceiling, etc. would at least lower the reflected levels.

 

[LTig]

There are plenty of people with serious hearing loss who still enjoy being an audiophile. I have heard of instances of serious audiophiles getting hearing aids and having it help a lot with their enjoyment.

So I would go into this with hope, not despair.

I second that. Went to a hearing aid specialist in 2016 to discuss a problem of my mother in law. Was offered a test for myself which was not good. Went to the doc at home and found out that FR of both ears starts to go down above 1 kHz reaching -40/-45 dB at 6 kHz. OUCH!

Funny thing is that I did not realize this loss when listening to music. It must have come very slowly over the years. It became more difficult to follow conversation in loud environments though.

Also developed a tinnitus when my wife got one, some 20 years ago, just in sympathy. True love it seems If I do not think about it I don't recognize it. So now I hear it.

The most important point is that I still enjoy music both live and recorded without feeling to miss something! Phew...

 

[amirm]

Also developed a tinnitus when my wife got one, some 20 years ago, just in sympathy.

It is amazing how the brain works. As soon as I read this sentence, I started to hear tinnitus. A moment before there was nothing.

 

[Tks]

Speaking of dentistry, I used to do a ton of lab work making the prosthetics. Hand drills and vacuum suction systems running all day. Best thing I ever did was use ear plugs.

Ended up getting fired because of it though. Enough workers complained that they had to get up, or wave at me to get my attention that the boss wasn't having it.

 

[UWinWithWin]

Speaking of dentistry, I used to do a ton of lab work making the prosthetics. Hand drills and vacuum suction systems running all day. Best thing I ever did was use ear plugs.

Ended up getting fired because of it though. Enough workers complained that they had to get up, or wave at me to get my attention that the boss wasn't having it.

Sorry to hear that

 

[UWinWithWin]

It is amazing how the brain works. As soon as I read this sentence, I started to hear tinnitus. A moment before there was nothing.

Sounds thought! Good luck with all that!

Somewhere I’ve read that that dentist have ststistically significant more hearing loss than age appropriate. Is it true, who knows.

But I still would like to save my hearing. And mostly I’m curious what would be the best electronic hearing protection. So I could hear when I wants to but it shut off when DBA got too high.

 

[Tks]

Sorry to hear that

Dodged an obvious bullet working at such a place. Wish I had been fired earlier xD

 

[MattHooper]

It's always fascinating when the subject of hearing acuity, and hearing issues arises in audio forums. More people than one might imagine have some issues.

On that note:

I've had quite bad tinnitus since the 90's. No doubt from tons of loud noise exposure, including playing in a loud band for many years. Yeah, I can empathize with folks saying it gave some dark times. Fortunately I adapted over time quite well (refused to use any masking noises, just got used to the sound). The more alarming issue has been dealing with rare condition of hyperacusis which I also acquired around 2,000 or so. Absolutely BRUTAL and a real life-changer when it's flaring up. Even the sound of turning a magazine page can seem irritating and shrill, much less dishes clattering or an actually loud sound. The temptation is to essentially become a hermit, which many with hyperacusis do.

Fortunately mine faded after a while in the early 2000s with just occasional flair-ups over the years. But about 8 month ago I was with my son hanging out in a part of the city near the lake on Labor day when we were suddenly being straffed by low-flighing fighter jets! Aaagh! It was the annual Air Show! Didn't even realize it was happening as we weren't where it was taking place. But it turned out we were right under the path they jets took to get to the lake so it wasn't like at the air show and fighter jets arrive distantly along the lake to perform. They were flying in formations VERY close over head. The sound was utterly deafening, teeth and bones shaking with every pass. I knew I was cooked...and I was. Massive flair up of hyperacusis. Ears were like someone had taken an eq to my hearing an pushed all the high end up so things sounded crazy bright and painful, even people speaking sounded like it was breaking my ear drums. It's a condition that takes people to very dark places. And this time it wasn't going away. Just devastating for an audiophile! (Let alone someone who works in sound!)

Anyway, I've been undergoing a treatment for it and have to hope for the best. Fortunately the "skewed eq" effect where sound is actually distorted is usually not there at this point, but certain sound still really hurt. I'm able to get moments here and there of quiet music listening in.
Fingers crossed....(the therapy apparently often takes a couple years...sigh....)

On the subject of aging hearing, because I've been wearing earplugs for decades at loud events I actually have good hearing for my age - I'm 55 and I can hear up to 14K with a bit of a notch at 4K.

Imagine btw if every audio reviewer had to undergo and publicly submit their hearing test. Bet that thought sends chills down the spines of the roster of aging audiophile writers

 

[Soniclife]

There is very good data in that report. I don't think it points to a credible cause of hearing loss though:

View attachment 25313

Surely you don't spend 8 hours listening to these noises continuously. Many of us have this level of sound in the form of headphone and TV listening.

Regardless, one thing you could do is to be some fabrics on the wall and ceilings to act as absorbers. Fabric paintings, soft acoustic tiles on the ceiling, etc. would at least lower the reflected levels.

One thing to caution against is they used A weighting, which rolls of the top end.

 

[soundwave76]

Good discussion here. TinnitusTalk is btw the best forum hands down to all T related. For those who have adapted to T, don’t go there and just live your life not thinking about the T...

 

[UWinWithWin]

Good discussion here. TinnitusTalk is btw the best forum hands down to all T related. For those who have adapted to T, don’t go there and just live your life not thinking about the T...

I’m really happy people are talking about it. We talk about all sorts of stuff about equipment etc.

I think it’s just another interesting aspect of our hobby. Also, it really goes to show that life is different for everyone.

A funny story that I realized last night , I was getting pissed at my sub for not sounding right for the last week. Turns out my 2 year old daughter unplugged it lmao. Now that it’s plugged in it’s working fine. It was like when I thought my amp was broken when listening to a bad recording haha.

 

[D700]

Yeah Tinnitus is weird...I'll go weeks without even recognizing it, then read something or hear something that makes me think about it, then I can't not hear it for a day or 2.

 

[MRC01]

...
My goal is to find something that will allow me to practice while protecting my hearing and allow me to talk to patients. I know they have passive filtered hearing protection. However, I sound funny when talking to the patients. Has anyone had good luck with any of the electronic ear protection. I know they have them for hunting/shooting sports. I wonder if they would be effective in my application.
...

I play flutes of various sizes including piccolo, which measures 108 dB SPL at my ear while playing. And I usually sit in front of the trumpets which can be just as loud. I have custom mold musician's earplugs with Etymotic filters that can be 9, 15 or 25 dB. I have 1 set of custom molds, and 3 sets of filters that snap on and off with an airtight seal, so I can choose the attenuation I want. I usually go with the 15 dB filters. These earplugs have 2 key advantages over normal earplugs. (A) relatively flat FR so they don't muffle sounds, they just attenuate everything more or less equally, and (B) they eliminate occlusion (by inserting into the ear canal nearly reaching the eardrum), so the sound of your own voice (and the flute you're playing) sounds natural. When wearing, they are discreet and low profile, you can even wear them under full-face motorcycle helmets.

Earmuffs with electronic hearing protection also work well, if you get a high quality model. I use them when shooting, operating power tools, etc. The muffs typically give 20-30 dB of broadband attenuation, and the electronics amplify midrange sounds so you can near normal speech while wearing them, then the electronics automatically silence when things get loud, so they keep overall levels down to a max of 80 dB or so.

Now in my 50s, my hearing measures above average and I don't have tinnitus, though I've gradually lost the top half octave. When I was a teenager I could hear up to about 18 kHz but now I can't hear anything above 15 kHz. That degree of loss is actually pretty mild for my age. Considering all the power tools, firearms, loud (acoustic) music, airplanes and other loud stuff I've been around in my life, I can say that hearing protection really works! Though a certain amount of hearing acuity loss is natural with age, it is manageable, and the brain compensates a lot. A well trained and experienced critical listener with imperfect ears hears more than someone with better hearing but no training.

 

[LTig]

[..] FR of both ears starts to go down above 1 kHz reaching -40/-45 dB at 6 kHz. OUCH!
[..]The most important point is that I still enjoy music both live and recorded without feeling to miss something! Phew...

Just want to add that one reason for myself being still able to enjoy music may be that the human hearing sense does not work linear but logarithmic, regarding both amplitude and frequency. Meaning that a loss of the highest octave (10 to 20 kHz) does not feel like 50% loss (10 kHz lost from 20 kHz hearing range) but rather as 10% loss (1 of 10 octaves lost). In my case that would mean some 20% loss (2 of 10 octaves).

 

[LTig]

hyperacusis [..] Absolutely BRUTAL and a real life-changer when it's flaring up. Even the sound of turning a magazine page can seem irritating and shrill, much less dishes clattering or an actually loud sound. The temptation is to essentially become a hermit, which many with hyperacusis do.

I once read that Beethoven (who became deaf and still wrote fantastic music like his 9th symphony) probably had something similar. While his lower hearing limit went up his upper hearing limit went down, finally meating each other which means that any sound either was inaudible or so loud that it caused pain (someone deducted this from his behaviour as it was described to later generations). This must be the most horrible thing to occur in ones life .

 

[MRC01]

... While his lower hearing limit went up his upper hearing limit went down, ...

Sadly this happens naturally with age. We gradually lose dynamic range, while also gradually losing the highest frequencies.
That said, in normal cases it doesn't stop the ability to enjoy or perform music. Some professional musicians are active into their 70s still making great performances.

 

[MattHooper]

I once read that Beethoven (who became deaf and still wrote fantastic music like his 9th symphony) probably had something similar. While his lower hearing limit went up his upper hearing limit went down, finally meating each other which means that any sound either was inaudible or so loud that it caused pain (someone deducted this from his behaviour as it was described to later generations). This must be the most horrible thing to occur in ones life .

Not sure but that almost sounds like you are describing something slightly different from hyperacusis: recruitment.

Yeah, for hyperacusis when you've got it, it's really hard for someone without it to "get" what it means to live with it. Problem is, if you go to forums where people discuss it with other people who "get" what it's like because they are living with it, the general tenor of conversation is very dark. Suicide is mentioned all too often. Ultimately probably best to avoid such talk groups (unless you can dip in briefly enough to get information not found elsewhere, then get out).

Hyperacusis can get better on it's own over time, as it did with me years ago, but it can take a long time. I'm undergoing the only therapy known to have some success rate: TRT, a treatment therapy in which I wear little noise generators like hearing aids, which continually pump in a mild broadband white noise. The idea is reducing contrast for sounds one normally encounters to protect the ears to some degree during the acute phase, while also increasing one's tolerance for sound over time and re-training the brain's auditory system. Supposedly pretty succesful, but it can also take a long time. Counter-intuitively, wearing earplugs is a no-no for people with this condition, as when you wear them the brain tends to "crank up the volume" to hear due to the ears being plugged, which is why sound often seems a bit brighter or louder when you initially take out earplugs. Since in the hyperacusis patient the problem is already that the auditory system has artificially cranked up the volume, you don't want to exacerbate this effect by plugging your ears with earplugs.

 

[Newk Yuler]

I worked in an enclosed manufacturing environment for decades where there was a constant hum of motors and drive belts at 85db+. OSHA required hearing protection in the room but there were shallow idiots who wouldn't be bothered. I always wore hearing protection and at 58 I have decent hearing because I respected it. We had mandatory professional hearing tests annually and it was easy to watch some people lose sensitivity. I went through many kinds of ear plugs over the years and FWIW I whole-heartedly recommend 3M 1100. I bought them for myself at work when management preferred crappier plugs just to fill a mandate. I still use them when I run a big air compressor, etc and when I sleep much of the time. You can get 200 individually wrapped pair in box for about $20 at Damazon. Good to keep handy all the time.