Fan-less silent PC

[F1308]

Sorry, that link is stating some complete bull shiiite!!! The author who is "Shaheer Ali, a passionate gamer who loves to write about all things tech" starts off by saying:
Graphics card does produce alpha and beta radiation because of the Ghz frequencies and proton emission. Let’s be real guys, anything that emits heat, radio waves, or even light is able to produce radiation.
Person has no clue about how dumb that statement is!

Later on they mention EM radiation from consumer devices, which is true but has no effect on human health. Geez people stop believing random internet posts by gamers and get a real education. Real information here:

α, β, γ, n Sources and Detection

What it shows: Radiations originating from atomic and nuclear processes are classified into four types:charged particulate radiation consisting of 1. heavy charged particles (α) 2. fast electrons (β)uncharged radiation consisting of 3. electromagnetic radiation (γ, x-ray) 4. neutrons (n)

sciencedemonstrations.fas.harvard.edu

Thank you.
Anyway, the thicker the case, the better.
And better safe than sorry.

 

[charlielaub]

You might not realize it but you are immersed in all sorts of radiation right now. Cosmic radiation that can actually damage your DNA and cause cancer is hitting the surface of the earth every second of every year. Some people suffer from exposure to this hazard that is coming from nature itself. Maybe you have heard about its effect: skin cancer. Then there is radiation within a gas that is emitted from the earth in many, many places and breathed in by humans inside buildings, even homes. It can be so bad that the building has to get special remediation and treatment for it! Maybe you have heard about it: Radon. Constant radon exposure over a long time can lead to lung cancer. Last time I checked, lungs are important. Oh, and can you beleive it but most local governments force you to install devices that emit IONIZING RADIATION right in your home, often multiple units!!! Ionizing radiation can easily kill you. These deadly devices are called (drum roll please.....) "smoke detectors". Look it up. Why aren't we all dead now? Any one want to "hazard" a guess (pun intended)?

Look, sorry to get all Neil DeGrasse-Tyson on you , but there are REAL hazards all around you of various forms. But EM radiation from electronics is really not one of them, even with nothing in between you and the active devices. Really!

More info:

Radiation in Everyday Life | IAEA

» Types of Radiation | Radiation Dose | Radiation Protection | At What Level is Radiation Harmful? | Risks and Benefits Radioactivity is a part of our earth - it has existed all along. Naturally occurring radioactive materials are present in its crust, the floors and walls of our homes, schools...

www.iaea.org

P.S. I think the source of the problem here is that the term "radiation" is actually very general. Heat is radiation. Light is also radiation. Radio waves (AM/FM) are also radiation. But radiation also has deadly forms. So you have to be specific about WHICH radiation (which part of the spectrum, or what particles) you are talking about. Its much worse than the mistake of comparing apples to oranges...

 

[Jimster480]

Sorry, that link is stating some complete bull shiiite!!! The author who is "Shaheer Ali, a passionate gamer who loves to write about all things tech" starts off by saying:
Graphics card does produce alpha and beta radiation because of the Ghz frequencies and proton emission. Let’s be real guys, anything that emits heat, radio waves, or even light is able to produce radiation.
Person has no clue about how dumb that statement is!

Later on they mention EM radiation from consumer devices, which is true but has no effect on human health. Geez people stop believing random internet posts by gamers and get a real education. Real information here:

α, β, γ, n Sources and Detection

What it shows: Radiations originating from atomic and nuclear processes are classified into four types:charged particulate radiation consisting of 1. heavy charged particles (α) 2. fast electrons (β)uncharged radiation consisting of 3. electromagnetic radiation (γ, x-ray) 4. neutrons (n)

sciencedemonstrations.fas.harvard.edu

Exactly. Just because something operates at high frequency doesn't mean it makes nuclear radiation.

 

[Jimster480]

You might not realize it but you are immersed in all sorts of radiation right now. Cosmic radiation that can actually damage your DNA and cause cancer is hitting the surface of the earth every second of every year. Some people suffer from exposure to this hazard that is coming from nature itself. Maybe you have heard about its effect: skin cancer. Then there is radiation within a gas that is emitted from the earth in many, many places and breathed in by humans inside buildings, even homes. It can be so bad that the building has to get special remediation and treatment for it! Maybe you have heard about it: Radon. Constant radon exposure over a long time can lead to lung cancer. Last time I checked, lungs are important. Oh, and can you beleive it but most local governments force you to install devices that emit IONIZING RADIATION right in your home, often multiple units!!! Ionizing radiation can easily kill you. These deadly devices are called (drum roll please.....) "smoke detectors". Look it up. Why aren't we all dead now? Any one want to "hazard" a guess (pun intended)?

Look, sorry to get all Neil DeGrasse-Tyson on you , but there are REAL hazards all around you of various forms. But EM radiation from electronics is really not one of them, even with nothing in between you and the active devices. Really!

More info:

Radiation in Everyday Life | IAEA

» Types of Radiation | Radiation Dose | Radiation Protection | At What Level is Radiation Harmful? | Risks and Benefits Radioactivity is a part of our earth - it has existed all along. Naturally occurring radioactive materials are present in its crust, the floors and walls of our homes, schools...

www.iaea.org

P.S. I think the source of the problem here is that the term "radiation" is actually very general. Heat is radiation. Light is also radiation. Radio waves (AM/FM) are also radiation. But radiation also has deadly forms. So you have to be specific about WHICH radiation (which part of the spectrum, or what particles) you are talking about. Its much worse than the mistake of comparing apples to oranges...

Holy shit I never knew smoke detectors let out ionizing radiation

 

[antcollinet]

Thank you.
Anyway, the thicker the case, the better.
And better safe than sorry.

It is a typical case of people misunderstaning the word radiation.

Sound is radiation - it radiates from speakers.

Light and radiowaves are electromagnetic radition.

Some frequencies of EM radiation can be dangerous:
UV light can cause skin damage and ultimately cancer - but consumer kit doesn't emit that.
Microwaves can cause problems since they can cook you. Microwave ovens are ususally pretty well screened.
Xrays (very high frequency EM radiation and similar wavelenghts such as used in cancer radiotherapy to kill cancer - can also kill healthy tissue.


However consumer kit - including PC's and graphics cards don't put out any of these dangerous frequencies, being many times lower than the frequency of even infra red light. They can emit microwave freqencies, but not in anything like the power levels needed to cause heating, so again, not a problem.

 

[charlielaub]

Holy shit I never knew smoke detectors let out ionizing radiation

Well, not "let out" but yep, most use that to detect fire:

https://support.firstalert.com/s/article/The-Facts-About-Smoke-Detector-Radiation

This is the important part of that web page:
Americium 241: Just enough power to work, but not to harm you

 

[charlielaub]

It's funny to learn of what some people consider "safe" and what is actually hazardous. On the one hand I have a brother who is, well, not very well educated. He thinks that anything coming from nature is healthy and is into some wacky homeopathic stuff. He doesn't trust "big pharma" but will ingest whatever he reads about on the internet that purports to "restore vitality". On the other hand, my wife is a toxicologist and knows exactly what in nature will kill you and how, and even knows what will kill you but is not detectable afterwards! I try to keep on her good side...

 

[somebodyelse]

Poe's law? 400-800THz as in the excerpt would be visible light which you'd expect from the laptop screen and LEDs.

 

[NTK]

They do.
Check it out, please.

Do Graphics Cards Produce Radiation? - Gaming On Point

Do you know your laptop alone can emit a radiation of around 400 to 800 THz? Even I was shocked to know this at first. Like this much huge radiation we get to experience daily! This is literally hazardous! But has other components of a PC or laptop emits the same radiation? What about the […]

gamingonpoint.com

400 - 800 THz? That's the visible spectrum (i.e. visible light). Your computer screen/monitor(s) definitely releases quite a bit of that (but at lot less than the sun). After all, this is why we have computer screens/monitors

Visible spectrum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Jimster480]

Well, not "let out" but yep, most use that to detect fire:

https://support.firstalert.com/s/article/The-Facts-About-Smoke-Detector-Radiation

This is the important part of that web page:
Americium 241: Just enough power to work, but not to harm you

Thanks I'll take a read!

 

[kemmler3D]

Sorry, that link is stating some complete bull shiiite!!! The author who is "Shaheer Ali, a passionate gamer who loves to write about all things tech" starts off by saying:
Graphics card does produce alpha and beta radiation because of the Ghz frequencies and proton emission. Let’s be real guys, anything that emits heat, radio waves, or even light is able to produce radiation.
Person has no clue about how dumb that statement is!

Later on they mention EM radiation from consumer devices, which is true but has no effect on human health. Geez people stop believing random internet posts by gamers and get a real education. Real information here:

α, β, γ, n Sources and Detection

What it shows: Radiations originating from atomic and nuclear processes are classified into four types:charged particulate radiation consisting of 1. heavy charged particles (α) 2. fast electrons (β)uncharged radiation consisting of 3. electromagnetic radiation (γ, x-ray) 4. neutrons (n)

sciencedemonstrations.fas.harvard.edu

If a RTX 4090 emitted nuclear (alpha, beta) radiation, we'd be hearing about it from more reliable outlets than this one... let alone the fact that such a thing is scientifically implausible. What this guy clearly doesn't realize is that he's suggesting your graphics card is also a fusion reactor or possibly some kind of particle accelerator. Paging doc Brown...

Electromagnetic and nuclear radiation are completely different things, and until you are talking about EM frequencies of ultraviolet or higher (x-rays, gamma rays) the negative impacts on human health are few and far between where they (might) exist at all. If you are actually worried about radiation (still, maybe this is just a little light trolling?) you should definitely brush up on the differences there.

 

[Prana Ferox]

I always thought a case was necessary to protect people around from radiation...

Computer cases are there to keep people's fingers away from moving parts and delicate wires / connections. Somewhat more functionally they're a skeleton to bolt the parts to (but you can get an open case that does that) including the cooling and any air redirection.

If you think your computer or other electronics are pooting out alpha / beta particles I don't know what to tell you.

This thread is full of weird generalizations and misinformation. All fans make noise. Any other moving part of the computer (i.e. a spinning HDD) makes noise. You can have coil whine. Noctuas are good fans. They're not the only good fans. I have Noctuas that spin up to 3000 RPM and you will definitely hear them across the room. Small (computer size) fans have gotten significantly better over the last 20 years, but they do still go bad. One person's room may have a noise floor where they can't hear their whirring computer no matter what's in it and one person may be able to hear a dustmite fart in the corner. I've heard 20 year old laptops that sounded like a cement mixer but the owner didn't notice.

Duno why you would waste money on Intel.
Just for all the people in this thread; Intel is a steaming pile of shit the past 5 years.. It blows tons of heat out and TDP has no relation at all to actual wattage. Since Intel is incapable of making anything efficient they just lie about TDP numbers.

AMD has leapfrogged them with Ryzen after they spent half a decade milking revisions of Sandy Bridge rather than developing anything useful. The best thing to build a silent pc with is AMD. Either a mobile based mini Pc (4600h, 5600h, 6600h) or u series variants... There is v1505 Ryzen as well.

There are other threads on this here but if all you're looking for is a beefier RPi box you can use the Intel Atom variants. I have two AliExpress fanless PCs with N5105 and J6413 chips, I know what Roon recommends but personally I'd be surprised if Roon is doing anything they couldn't handle. AMD doesn't really have competition in the ultra-low-power market, even the -U chips don't do fanless in a tiny box and certainly not at this price. I'll agree with you that for desktop computing it's hard to make the value proposition for Intel right now.

 

[kemmler3D]

Anyway, the thicker the case, the better.
And better safe than sorry.

If you are after cooling and eliminating noise, thicker is probably better. Otherwise doesn't really matter.

Better safe than sorry is a good principle in general, but this is a lot like wearing a radiation suit to take your lasagna out of the oven. At some point it becomes a little silly.

 

[charlielaub]

Glomming on to the above post by Prana Fox, I like the low power Intel Celerons like the N5105. This is plenty for most audio processing even FIR but not if the computer is supposed to do anything else. Not for gaming. If you want to step up from there, there are some nice Ryzen options that have relatively low TDP (intended for laptops) and are appearing in mini PCs. For example the Beelink SER 5 with the Ryzen 5 5560u is a great option IMO. Not fanless, however. Best bet for fanless currently is still the Celeron line as mentioned above, or even the J4125.

 

[charlielaub]

If you are after cooling and eliminating noise, thicker is probably better. Otherwise doesn't really matter.

Better safe than sorry is a good principle in general, but this is a lot like wearing a radiation suit to take your lasagna out of the oven. At some point it becomes a little silly.

Most cooling solutions move air in and out of the case, and that is through HOLES that can also leak noise. So a "thick" case is not really helping you there. Eliminating noise is often done via noise reduction padding on the inside of the case, but this is not feasible in a mini PC type case for example. The padding is about 0.75 inch thick. I have a large tower case that uses this approach and it works pretty well but is definitely not "silent" by any means. Passive cooling could work here, but it is still a bit exotic and unconventional (sadly).

 

[kemmler3D]

Most cooling solutions move air in and out of the case, and that is through HOLES that can also leak noise. So a "thick" case is not really helping you there. Eliminating noise is often done via noise reduction padding on the inside of the case, but this is not feasible in a mini PC type case for example. The padding is about 0.75 inch thick. I have a large tower case that uses this approach and it works pretty well but is definitely not "silent" by any means. Passive cooling could work here, but it is still a bit exotic and unconventional (sadly).

F1308's case is passively cooled, so I guess if you had mechanical HDDs in there, noise could be a factor relating to thickness. Otherwise I agree.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

They do.
Check it out, please.

Do Graphics Cards Produce Radiation? - Gaming On Point

Do you know your laptop alone can emit a radiation of around 400 to 800 THz? Even I was shocked to know this at first. Like this much huge radiation we get to experience daily! This is literally hazardous! But has other components of a PC or laptop emits the same radiation? What about the […]

gamingonpoint.com

That's all gibberish.

 

[kchap]

400 - 800 THz? That's the visible spectrum (i.e. visible light). Your computer screen/monitor(s) definitely releases quite a bit of that (but at lot less than the sun). After all, this is why we have computer screens/monitors

Visible spectrum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well spotted. I was about to make a similar comment until I saw yours.

 

[Apesbrain]

I like the low power Intel Celerons...

Many fanless Celeron N/J options from Beelink or MeLE available on Amazon. Most pre-installed with Windows 11 Pro, 8GB RAM, and a small SSD system drive. Cases often have room inside for a 2TB storage drive; still comes in under $300.

Install LMS and SqueezeliteX for a server and player in one small box. Manage the server headless from another networked PC. Use the back panel analog out or add a small Topping or SMSL USB DAC. Control playback from any browser, tablet, or phone.

No more functionality than a Raspberry Pi, but easier to find and, if you're used to Windows, nothing new to learn.

Very economical alternative to a Node and has the advantage of its own internal file storage.

 

[Schollaudio]

Glomming on to the above post by Prana Fox, I like the low power Intel Celerons like the N5105. This is plenty for most audio processing even FIR but not if the computer is supposed to do anything else. Not for gaming. If you want to step up from there, there are some nice Ryzen options that have relatively low TDP (intended for laptops) and are appearing in mini PCs. For example the Beelink SER 5 with the Ryzen 5 5560u is a great option IMO. Not fanless, however. Best bet for fanless currently is still the Celeron line as mentioned above, or even the J4125.

A Beelink SER5 vs MeLE Quiter HD3 is about $40. I'm not up of CPU and graphic performance. Is the Beelink a better performer for graphics, audio and games?

I'm looking for a new mini and audio interface too.

Thanks,

Scott

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