Not trying to be arrogant here, but who listens to this?

[Axo1989]

Would you ask that question of this?

Unité d'Habitation of Berlin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The fairly tragic part of the story on these Unité d'Habitation was that many important design aspects and equally critical social elements ("an accessible roof terrace, a kindergarten, stores and businesses on the 5th floor, and a social service areas throughout the building" per Wikipedia) which I consider essential to Le Corbusier's art form (including their long-term successful function as social living systems) were not realised, due to conservatism and rigid adherence to regulatory norms. Tangential to music of course but interesting to ponder the necessity of fully realised new forms as a key valuable element of art practice.

 

[ahofer]

Take a few minutes to learn Real Music by A Real Musician

I’m sorry, that’s an ignorant and patronizing comment. Enjoy your tastes, but it gives you no right to attempt condescension.

 

[JaMaSt]

Tangential to music of course but interesting to ponder the necessity of new forms as a key valuable element of art practice.

It's not really tangential to music. Neither Corbu's building, nor Mondrian's painting, followed the Classical "Beau Arts Academy" style of architecture and painting - just as the music compositions of Schoenberg, Berg, Messiaen, Boulze, etc. didn't follow the the major/minor modes, harmonic progression, etc. of Classical music. It was all part of the same "movement" - an attempt to break from Classical norms.

The forms that the International Style of Architecture followed weren't necessary - they were a deliberate attempt to break from the past - as is much of the modernist music in this post.

 

[Sal1950]

On that definition of 'music' did you listen to the DJ Shadow example? I expect not but try it and consider that while he (aka Josh Davis) is indeed famed for producing a classic of the genre in Endroducing... and the "first completely sampled album" the video posted here is also hip-hop, with real melodies played by real people with real instruments (and brass, no less). Which makes it music again: are your criteria functional or performative?I

I didn't realize you were addressing me, sorry.
Yes I did listen to first minute or so.
I believe I can walk over to my keyboard now
and bang on the keys in a very similar manner.
Would that make it music, or me a musician. ?
I think not on either point. LOL

 

[Sal1950]

I’m sorry, that’s an ignorant and patronizing comment. Enjoy your tastes, but it gives you no right to attempt condescension.

Let me give you a couple examples.
This is ART

This is crap and an embarrassment to the people of Chicago.
Which will still be on display in another 500+ years?
JMHO ROTFL

 

[Axo1989]

It's not really tangential to music. Neither Corbu's building, nor Mondrian's painting, followed the Classical "Beau Arts Academy" style of architecture and painting - just as the music compositions of Schoenberg, Berg, Messiaen, Boulze, etc. didn't follow the the major/minor modes, harmonic progression, etc. of Classical music. It was all part of the same "movement" - an attempt to break from Classical norms.

I agree. Tangential was a rhetorical overstatement, I certainly didn't mean irrelevant.

The forms that the International Style of Architecture followed weren't necessary - they were a deliberate attempt to break from the past - as is much of the modernist music in this post.

By 'necessary' I don't mean that particular new forms are inevitable, but that the attempt to realise new forms (and methods/practices etc) is one of the things that characterises and defines art as opposed to craft.

 

[JaMaSt]

This is crap and an embarrassment to the people of Chicago.
Which will still be on display in another 500+ years?
JMHO ROTFL

I don't disagree with your assessment of either example. And I don't have any particular affinity for either Corbu or Mondrian.

 

[Sal1950]

This is ART

This is crap
And I'll bet any 8 year old would say the same.

 

[Sal1950]

And I don't have any particular affinity for either Corbu or Mondrian.

I didn't really comment on it as I don't know a darn thing about it
I first though the poster was making some wide reference to the fact
the painting I posted and the building had similar colors painted on the front?

 

[Axo1989]

I didn't realize you were addressing me, sorry.
Yes I did listen to first minute or so.
I believe I can walk over to my keyboard now
and bang on the keys in a very similar manner.
Would that make it music, or me a musician. ?
I think not on either point. LOL

That someone can reproduce an element of a piece of music on a keyboard ad hoc is pretty meaningless.

You've dodged the (direct) question: are your criteria for real music (which that hip-hop example corresponds with, regardless of anyones tastes) functional (can we apply them to an example and get a result) or performative (just expressing/codifying personal taste, but not workable as criteria)?

 

[ahofer]

Let me give you a couple examples.
This is ART

This is crap and an embarrassment to the people of Chicago.
Which will still be on display in another 500+ years?
JMHO ROTFL

I see you are the sole judge of these things, despite the keyhole through which you see much of it.

 

[Sal1950]

I see you are the sole judge of these things, despite the keyhole through which you see much of it.

Keyhole?
Print a copy of each and walk down the street asking everyone you meet.
"Which is beautiful ART and which is crap."
I believe you'll rapidly learn it is your view that is keyholed.

 

[ahofer]

Keyhole?
Print a copy of each and walk down the street asking everyone you meet.
"Which is beautiful ART and which is crap."
I believe you'll rapidly learn it is your view that is keyholed.

Weird that you chose to display your ignorance here.

ignored from now on.

 

[JaMaSt]

Keyhole?
Print a copy of each and walk down the street asking everyone you meet.
"Which is beautiful ART and which is crap."
I believe you'll rapidly learn it is your view that is keyholed.

I think the better response would have been, Why yes, I am the sole judge (for me) of what is or isn't good art.

Because at the end of the day we all are. Nothing is verified or validated by taking a poll.

 

[Sal1950]

Weird that you chose to display your ignorance here.

ignored from now on.

Since your only intelligent response is name calling, maybe your better off that way.

 

[Axo1989]

And I'll bet any 8 year old would say the same.

That doesn't mean that you should carry on like an eight year old in this thread though. I'm pretty tempted by the ignore option too at this stage. Quite a few people have asked you some decent questions and put effort into some decent counter-arguments, but you are basically blowing them off. Strikes me as a bit lazy by comparison.

Edit: as a follow-up, do you understand that while those examples of art that you value from the past are certainly acknowledged as masterpieces (in common parlance) simply re-producing them, or new works in those precise styles, won't be art today? This isn't just a matter of changing tastes (or some histrionic decline of western civilisation) but part of an essential characteristic of new art that requires some challenge or realisation of new imagination.

 

[Sal1950]

That doesn't mean that you should carry on like an eight year old in this thread though. I'm pretty tempted by the ignore option too at this stage. Quite a few people have asked you some decent questions and put effort into some decent counter-arguments, but you are basically blowing them off. Strikes me as a bit lazy by comparison.

Please list?

 

[Sal1950]

That doesn't mean that you should carry on like an eight year old in this thread though.

I carried on ?
I simply posted that REAL music was created by musicians playing musical instruments.
And fan boys when nuts
If you can't play an instrument and can't read music, how are you a musician?

 

[Andretti60]

Keyhole?
Print a copy of each and walk down the street asking everyone you meet.
"Which is beautiful ART and which is crap."
I believe you'll rapidly learn it is your view that is keyholed.

So, you leave up the people on the street to decide what is art and what is crap.
Good luck with that.

 

[Doodski]

So, you leave up the people on the street to decide what is art and what is crap.
Good luck with that.

Lol... Funny stuff.