Do We Want All Speakers To Sound The Same ?

[YSC]

Perhaps in comparing our two approaches. I have no doubt many here will, like me, just sit down in the sweet spot and zone out to the music. It's actually one of the reasons I spin vinyl: I can actually leave my phone and screens aside, in another room, and not be distracted by screens for some part of the day. (Whereas when using my digital source I need my phone/ipad in front of me as controller).

I don't need high end audio to enjoy music - I can swoon to my favorite music on my car stereo, smart speaker, even on my iphone's speakers.
For me a great stereo system is a "Music +" listening experience. It's music presented with luxurious sound quality. Sometimes I can zone in on the sheer sensuousness of the sound, often the music/great sound quality merges for sonic bliss. And, I'm sure I'm not alone, it encourages me to enjoy and appreciate a wider range of music than I might have without the system.

It could be either way, but somehow I still think it’s somehow when one feels the system is great, be it due to mental perception for certain eye catching distortion house sound, or the other way some of us here believe the best measuring one is great, once that mental picture our system is great, one could fall back and enjoy music.

 

[Newman]

If I have two sealed bass cabinets, one of which achieves a qts of 0.76 (very large cabinet) and the next at 0.9 (large but manageable).
Q1: would I easily hear the difference?
Q2: If yes to q1, would eq be able to remove the difference heard?
Modeling the two does show slight (about 1 db) peaking before rolloff for 0.9 version, but it is slight.
What I am considering here is the use of 15” qtc = 0.7 drivers (that I currently have in open baffle) in a sealed cabinet, and the answer to this question help me figure out how small I can safely make the cabinets.
Qts at 0.9 still provides fast settling time, but I am confused about how far one can take this before significantly compromising bass quality?

Dr Earl Geddes says all the above talk of Q is not important, just get any driver with plenty of swept volume and EQ it.

 

[Newman]

Do We Want All Speakers To Sound The Same?

The fi in hi-fi: if the fidelity is high, the transparency is high, the realism is high, the similarity is high, the sameness is high.

The tone of a hi-fi component, superimposed over the tone of a musical instrument, is no longer the tone of a musical instrument. I want to experience the tone of musical instruments in my home.

 

[Inner Space]

The tone of a hi-fi component, superimposed over the tone of a musical instrument, is no longer the tone of a musical instrument. I want to experience the tone of musical instruments in my home.

Me too. Which is why I like heavily damped listening rooms. Because after all, the tone of a reverberant listening room, superimposed over the tone of a well recorded musical instrument in its own space, is no longer the tone of a well recorded musical instrument in its own space.

Pertinent to the thread, in my long and varied experience, really good rooms already make really good speakers sound very much the same. It seems counterintuitive, especially given the consumerist imperative of this hobby, but if the room is right, speaker choice becomes relatively unimportant.

 

[Newman]

I dunno....the mastering engineer should have gotten the sound he or she wanted in a non-dead listening room, so listening to it over-deadened is not true to the creation.

Circle of Confusion.

But yes, what you call "the tone of a reverberant listening room" is precisely why Toole writes of the importance of neutral room absorption and reflection characteristics, combined with good speaker off-axis sound.

 

[Newman]

For me a great stereo system is a "Music +" listening experience. It's music presented with luxurious sound quality.

I think this is Toole's "envelopment" and "spaciousness", rather than finding luxury in tonal frequency inaccuracy.

 

[goat76]

In the end, the only thing that should matter is if YOUR sound system sounds right to YOU. If most of the music you usually listen to sounds more accurate on one speaker than another speaker, it shouldn’t matter if the one you prefer is the less accurate one in a set of measurements.

I think the original use of the words “high fidelity” was meant to describe something that was considered to have high fidelity to the original musical event. So with that in mind, if a certain speaker sounds more accurate to what you expect the real instruments and the music to sound like, you should probably go for that instead of the speaker that is considered the more accurate one measuring-wise.

And the thing about coloration and that a certain sameness will occur with everything that is listening to, I find that to be a non-issue because that exact coloration was probably the exact reason why the person though the speaker sounded more real in the first place.

 

[Purité Audio]

Yup a coloured loudspeaker smothers every song with the same distortion, I remember when the goal was to have less distortion not more.
Keith

 

[Newman]

if a certain speaker sounds more accurate to what you expect the real instruments and the music to sound like, you should probably go for that instead of the speaker that is considered the more accurate one measuring-wise.

All the best evidence I have seen suggests you just said the same thing in two ways, if “measuring-wise” means a well-read spinorama.

 

[goat76]

Yup a coloured loudspeaker smothers every song with the same distortion, I remember when the goal was to have less distortion not more.
Keith

The coloration of the recordings will be there no matter what speaker is used, there's no way around that. If a certain speaker sounds better with most music overall to a particular person, it shouldn’t matter to that person if that speaker is considered to be the most accurate speaker in the world or not measuring-wise.

If we take the thread starter @MattHooper as an example who likes something about his speakers that makes everything sound more accurate and real to him. We don't know if the aspect he favors with his speakers is a coloration, or if it’s a certain aspect of the reproduction that is truly a more accurate representation of the incoming signal.

Do you think he should go for something else just because it may be a coloration that makes him like his speakers more than the other speakers he has heard?

 

[goat76]

All the best evidence I have seen suggests you just said the same thing in two ways, if “measuring-wise” means a well-read spinorama.

Where is the evidence you talk about? Even Toole’s research shows that not 100% of all people prefer the same speaker, it’s just an average which means there are subjective variations of what is preferred.

 

[Newman]

If we take the thread starter @MattHooper as an example who likes something about his speakers that makes everything sound more accurate and real to him. We don't know if the aspect he favors with his speakers is a coloration, or if it’s a certain aspect of the reproduction that is truly a more accurate representation of the incoming signal.

Have you seen any evidence that Matt has subjected himself to controlled listening tests, which demonstrate his prefernce for the sound waves themselves from speakers with a worse spinorama? Tests with sufficient controls for non-sonic variables, sufficient sampling for statistical confidence, and recordings that are known to have natural sonics?

If not, your posts are full of unwarranted presuppositions. Maybe you could stop that and look for evidence?

 

[changer]

Do you think he should go for something else just because it may be a coloration that makes him like his speakers more than the other speakers he has heard?

The issue with this thinking is: Not every instrument will benefit from a certain equalizer curve in the same way. What might make a reproduction more enjoyable for one or for a small group of instruments (i. e. medium sized woodwinds, but not big woodwinds) could be highly detrimental for another.
Matt hence needs a system for each musical genre or even a multi-channel system that requires recordings with seperate tracks for instruments, which I am not aware of to exist beyound sound art.
Or he gets multiple sets of stereo speakers, to listen to drums on Devores if he favours their reproduction, and more sets for whatever his other preferred music styles are. With one non-neutral speaker, however, the sound will not be right for many styles. Before littering my living room with many rare speaker species, I would rather experiment with a neutral speaker that fits my basic requirements like dispersion, distortion, extension and the likes, and spend my time to create equalizer presets for certain music styles.

I think this actually is not a bad idea if done systematically.

 

[Purité Audio]

The coloration of the recordings will be there no matter what speaker is used, there's no way around that. If a certain speaker sounds better with most music overall to a particular person, it shouldn’t matter to that person if that speaker is considered to be the most accurate speaker in the world or not measuring-wise.

If we take the thread starter @MattHooper as an example who likes something about his speakers that makes everything sound more accurate and real to him. We don't know if the aspect he favors with his speakers is a coloration, or if it’s a certain aspect of the reproduction that is truly a more accurate representation of the incoming signal.

Do you think he should go for something else just because it may be a coloration that makes him like his speakers more than the other speakers he has heard?

The recording is the recording, by choosing a coloured loudspeaker you are smothering that recording and every other with distortion.
Keith

 

[ahofer]

The coloration of the recordings will be there no matter what speaker is used, there's no way around that. If a certain speaker sounds better with most music overall to a particular person, it shouldn’t matter to that person if that speaker is considered to be the most accurate speaker in the world or not measuring-wise.

If we take the thread starter @MattHooper as an example who likes something about his speakers that makes everything sound more accurate and real to him. We don't know if the aspect he favors with his speakers is a coloration, or if it’s a certain aspect of the reproduction that is truly a more accurate representation of the incoming signal.

Do you think he should go for something else just because it may be a coloration that makes him like his speakers more than the other speakers he has heard?

He should get what he wants even if he just enjoys sitting there in silence and looking at it or even using it as a cheeseboard.

But we would benefit if manufacturers and reviewers were more careful and scientific with their claims.

 

[goat76]

The issue with this thinking is: Not every instrument will benefit from a certain equalizer curve in the same way. What might make a reproduction more enjoyable for one or for a small group of instruments (i. e. medium sized woodwinds, but not big woodwinds) could be highly detrimental for another.
Matt hence needs a system for each musical genre or even a multi-channel system that requires recordings with seperate tracks for instruments, which I am not aware of to exist beyound sound art.
Or he gets multiple sets of stereo speakers, to listen to drums on Devores if he favours their reproduction, and more sets for whatever his other preferred music styles are. With one non-neutral speaker, however, the sound will not be right for many styles. Before littering my living room with many rare speaker species, I would rather experiment with a neutral speaker that fits my basic requirements like dispersion, distortion, extension and the likes, and spend my time to create equalizer presets for certain music styles.

I think this actually is not a bad idea if done systematically.

Who has said anything about a certain equalizer curve? I don't know what characteristics makes him like his speakers over the others, do you?

 

[goat76]

The recording is the recording, by choosing a coloured loudspeaker you are smothering that recording and every other with distortion.
Keith

Nope, it will just be more or less energy in some frequency areas (if we assume that’s the type of coloration for that specific case).

If that specific coloration makes everything sound better for Matt, I see no problem with his choice.

 

[changer]

Who has said anything about a certain equalizer curve? I don't know what characteristics makes him like his speakers over the others, do you?

You might need to read up on this in the previous discussion in this thread then. Matt had expressed his preference for highly colored speakers, and this equals an equalization curve.

He had also described the positive effect of a certain speaker with a certain instrument, i. e. drums with the Devores.

 

[Purité Audio]

Nope, it will just be more or less energy in some frequency areas (if we assume that’s the type of coloration for that specific case).

If that specific coloration makes everything sound better for Matt, I see no problem with his choice.

No it won’t, it will be coloured off-axis colouring the hopefully reasonably flat on axis, all the time.
This why your ATCs are relatively coloured compared to contemporary designs.
Keith

 

[goat76]

You might need to read up on this in the previous discussion in this thread then. Matt had expressed his preference for highly colored speakers, and this equals an equalization curve.

He had also described the positive effect of a certain speaker with a certain instrument, i. e. drums with the Devores.

I have also read the thread and Matt’s speakers are not “highly colored” speakers, they are fairly neutral in the frequency response.

He’s not sure what makes them sound better. And to my understanding, he has just taken up some examples of some instruments he finds sounding more natural and "real". That doesn't mean everything else sounds wrong.

To my understanding, he finds his speakers to sound better with everything he throws at them, he never mentioned anything else to indicate the opposite.