Oil Change Intervals Objectively

[Doodski]

I had one of those for oil changes on my Pachanga V8. Easy to keep clean, very easy to suck 1/2 cup of oil out the dipstick. No muss, little fuss.

In Our Wake: The Sea Ray Pachanga | Boating Mag

Remembering Sea Ray's popular performance boat.

www.boatingmag.com

Jeeze, that was a fun boat.
Glad I kept the oil sucker when I sold it

I checked on the Sea ray because I ran a Sea Ray 19" for a couple of years with a 305V8 OMC. It topped out about maybe 42mph apparently and chopped through waves pretty good too. I spun it around @ about 32mph in slightly choppy waters on the Arrow Lake when I saw a yellow log dunking in and out of a wave. The lake is renowned for yellow logs floating, stumps and dead wood and I didn't want to rip out a leg. Scared the stuff outta me for sure...lol. Great boat, we used it a lot for a couple of years fishing and water skiing. The Sea Ray that you mentioned I saw comes in either a 350 or a 454 I think it was. Is that correct? What did you operate?

 

[LTig]

I did experiment going back to using the Eco boost after having it off for several months. Mileage and performance was still worse when Eco boost was on. So of course I switched back to leaving it off. My local Honda dealer, said he has heard of this from other Honda owners.

Thanks. Which motor do you have (technical specs), if I may ask? And which kind of gear change?

 

[itz_all_about_the_music]

Which part was paranoid?

 

[Spkrdctr]

Well, I just speak from experience. 18 years of massive corruption, and amazing stupidity. Maybe others have had good luck with the Feds.

 

[Neddy]

I checked on the Sea ray because I ran a Sea Ray 19" for a couple of years with a 305V8 OMC. It topped out about maybe 42mph apparently and chopped through waves pretty good too. I spun it around @ about 32mph in slightly choppy waters on the Arrow Lake when I saw a yellow log dunking in and out of a wave. The lake is renowned for yellow logs floating, stumps and dead wood and I didn't want to rip out a leg. Scared the stuff outta me for sure...lol. Great boat, we used it a lot for a couple of years fishing and water skiing. The Sea Ray that you mentioned I saw comes in either a 350 or a 454 I think it was. Is that correct? What did you operate?

It was a 350 P22. I think the top speed was 'claimed' to be around 70, sure seemed like it; it would just Hop up on step and Go!
It went through 3-4+' chop suprisingly well, tho not enjoyably.
Honeycomb hull was extremely light for a largish boat, so gofast was impressive.
Glad I didn't succumb to the temptation for getting one of the larger ones (27? & 37??) which were also avail in twins.
I didn't know SR made a 50th anniversery version in 2009! Chubbier looking, tho.
IRCC, the 454, tho more powerful, was heavier, and so no faster (and a lot thirstier).
Unfortunately, the lake I used it on - tho not small per se - was small enough that, at 70mph, it was PowerUp, Zoom (1-2 minutes), PowerDown (or loop around).
Oh, yah, the exhaust note on that thing (a special free flow (bellow) when at full power) was just delightful - nearly as good as the ChrisCraft chevy 283 v8!
So a LOT of work effort and $$ for a few minutes of joy....the rest was bouncing around in the waves, which was enjoyable enough.
There used to be yearly blues festivals on the lake we could attend from the lake, so that kept my interest going, but eventually those went away too.
I basically had to give up on boats b/c they progressively beat up on me more and more - starting with the 1961 ChrisCraft 21', then the P22, then a '76 Checkmate VmateII w/rebuilt TowerofPower (150hp!) that I still have but havent' run in years. The haul in/haul out/+trailering was just too much, plus all those B.O.A.T. costs, of course.
Sure did have fun for 10-12 years while I had them!
Sold the P22 at a disspapointing loss to a lowballer - it had less than 600 hrs on it, barely broken in, but still hope it bit him good at some point.

Have to admit, as much as I do NOT subscribe to the 'he who dies with the most toys wins' idea (life & living is more important), I do NOT regret the adventures and passions I've shared over the many years. Lots of stuff to look back on, remember, laugh like hell about, and wonder....How In Heck did I survive THAT??

 

[itz_all_about_the_music]

The only problem is that SAE standards are derived from what the government has mandated. So much of vehicles are made according to the regulations from the government. The current problems with vehicles is that to reach the fuel mileage requirements for the manufacturers they have to go to the edge in everything. The carbon build up with direct injection is an example. Millions of cars running around with 50,000 plus miles getting 25% less power because the intake valve area is all choked up. They then (most of the wise makers) started using the small port injection, and the direct injection to keep carbon build up at bay. I had to buy a new car in 2020 and my wife wanted another Toyota Camry. I would not have bought one but they had the port injection cure so, she now has the 2020 Camry. Buying ANY direct injection vehicle without port injection is just plain nuts. Problem is most buyers are not aware of the difference and how important it is. No manufacturer is going to advertise their engines get gunked up and choke off the power. Since it happens gradually, most owners never realize it has happened. Sadly as in most things, the government is NOT your friend!

Don't like clean air? Don't like spending less of your hard earned dollars on petroleum products? Don't like surviving a head on or offset collision? Actually like Class 8 Trucks that belch particulates?
I like most of what the EPA and CARB has mandated in FE, Tailpipe/Background Emissions, and especially Safety Standards. The Light Duty and Heavy Duty automotive industries comply with EPA and CARB Standards. They don't design them "...to the regulations from the government". They are free to design them in any way they please as long as they comply.
The fact that manufacturers have in some instances failed to design both complying AND robust designs are on them, not on the Government. So I disagree with "in MOST things, the government is NOT your friend!"
Don't like Toyota's, BMW's, Audi's...other designs that may suffer from intake port choking? Then don't buy those brands. Government Standards don't force you to by those/any specific manufacturer's products.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Don't like clean air? Don't like spending less of your hard earned dollars on petroleum products? Don't like surviving a head on or offset collision? Actually like Class 8 Trucks that belch particulates?
I like most of what the EPA and CARB has mandated in FE, Tailpipe/Background Emissions, and especially Safety Standards. The Light Duty and Heavy Duty automotive industries comply with EPA and CARB Standards. They don't design them "...to the regulations from the government". They are free to design them in any way they please as long as they comply.
The fact that manufacturers have in some instances failed to design both complying AND robust designs are on them, not on the Government. So I disagree with "in MOST things, the government is NOT your friend!"
Don't like Toyota's, BMW's, Audi's...other designs that may suffer from intake port choking? Then don't buy those brands. Government Standards don't force you to by those/any specific manufacturer's products.

Strawman much?

 

[valerianf]

For a car, oil change is 5000 miles or dashboard computer warning if available.
Blend synthetic or full synthetic (no dinosaur oil quality).

 

[MRC01]

... Some Toyota engines in the early 2000s had a propensity to use oil (at least partly, I think, due to the 0W-20 oil spec'd for the cars). ... I checked the oil level the first time it came on after we acquired the vehicle -- and it wasn't even showing on the dipstick! . ...

Some engines burn oil during normal operation. 1 quart every 3000 miles isn't unusual, nor is it considered a defect. Though much more than that, it starts to be seen as a defect or problem. Driving in a spirited manner tends to increase oil consumption, though it isn't bad for the car or engine. Other engines don't burn oil much or at all. Oil consumption in and of itself isn't a problem, but the long-term trend can be a symptom - if oil consumption starts to increase with age, the engine's probably got piston ring or valve guide wear.

My daughter's old 2003 Subaru (which we owned since new) has burned 1 qt. every 3000 miles ever since it was new. Now has 6 figures of mileage, oil consumption still the same, still runs like new. My Mazda3 doesn't burn any oil, despite my frequent spirited driving. Neither does our 2018 Subaru. But the RX-7 twin turbo I used to race burned a quart every 1000 miles, which was normal & healthy for that engine. It had oil injection that kicked in at high throttle / high RPM to promote apex seal lubrication.

Either way, no matter what kind of car or engine you have, check the oil periodically, say at least every month or 1000 miles, and it won't be a problem. If you wait for the idiot light to turn on, the damage may already be done. They're called "idiot lights" for a reason

 

[JJB70]

I have never done an oil change before the manufacturer recommendation, which usually meant annually as that came before the mileage trigger though I had cars with two year oil change intervals depending on mileage. None of the cars I owned ever had any engine issues.

 

[jbattman1016]

My Hyundai Sonata has a direct injection engine. How does DI affect oil consumption?

Run intake valve clearer every year (GDI clearer or at dealer) and don't forget and the injector cleaner (goes into the gas tank) There is nothing you can do beyond keeping it as clean as possible. Use a good oil filter as well.

 

[jbattman1016]

I have never done an oil change before the manufacturer recommendation, which usually meant annually as that came before the mileage trigger though I had cars with two year oil change intervals depending on mileage. None of the cars I owned ever had any engine issues.

Hyundai recommends 3750 miles (I think) on my 2016 sonata. This is the sever service interval, but if you read how they define severe, that's basically normal driving where I live.

 

[itz_all_about_the_music]

Run intake valve clearer every year (GDI clearer or at dealer) and don't forget and the injector cleaner (goes into the gas tank) There is nothing you can do beyond keeping it as clean as possible. Use a good oil filter as well.

Find one either Bosch, Denso, or Delphi fuel injector product engineer who tells you "injector cleaner" is worth 50 cents, and I'll buy you a twelve pack or bottle of wine - your choice.

 

[jbattman1016]

Find one either Bosch, Denso, or Delphi fuel injector product engineer who tells you "injector cleaner" is worth 50 cents, and I'll buy you a twelve pack or bottle of wine - your choice.

Yeah, it shouldn't be needed, but it MIGHT also keep the fuel pump filter clean... MIGHT

 

[Spkrdctr]

Find one either Bosch, Denso, or Delphi fuel injector product engineer who tells you "injector cleaner" is worth 50 cents, and I'll buy you a twelve pack or bottle of wine - your choice.

I agree with a caveat. With some testing years ago, I found the normal recommended amount to be worthless. It takes about 4 to 5 times the recommended amount to actually make a difference. Also, the chemical they use does not harm the engine at all in much higher amounts. Many people are afraid to run a 4x or 5x amount as they are afraid it will somehow hurt the engine. It doesn't, but in those amounts it actually starts to work. Plus for our motorcycle guys (I was one) you should always use "Top Tier" gasoline. That helps keep your system clean also. Back when I had my racing gasoline additive company I was able to test for interesting to me things. Oh and I also had the money and time. Money being number 1. Or as an old duffer now, I can ask myself "Where did all the money go". But what a life I have lived!

 

[G|force]

Blumlein figure 8 array said:

"All espoused some version of oil not wearing out it just gets dirty, and a new filter cleans it up. That is not correct, but they believed it anyway"

May I ask if this was in the modern synthetic era or in the 70's-90's when Valvoline was the best we had?
Oh Kendall You get out what you put in. Thats true and F that crap, thanks for the direct advice Kendall. Titanium oil, cool.

Any oil filter has a bypass valve that is usually open and not filtering at all.
One could argue the reduction in oil pressure is enough to delete the filter all together and run a turn around plate if willing to do those 3k intervals.
I run a WIX filter or a oversized Motorcraft FP400, buying dozens saves money.

 

[blueone]

Any oil filter has a bypass valve that is usually open and not filtering at all.

What is your evidence for this claim?

 

[G|force]

There is no evidence, filters have a sprung valve that responds to oil pressure, and most if not all modern engines have an additional spring valve in the return oil gallery that responds to oil pressure.

 

[pseudoid]

...is such objective information available...

This does not attempt to answer your question...
but...
Some of the late-model vehicles (Cadillac/BMW/etc.) actually notify driver when it is time to change oil.
In the old days, the notification was either based on miles driven and/or engine runtime.
[see for example, this link:]

...Honestly, oil-life monitor is a poor description for these systems. A better name is oil life estimator. They do not monitor any direct physical or chemical property of oil; they only accumulate data from the vehicle’s computer and predict how your driving habits and operating conditions have affected the oil’s viscosity, total base number (a measure of remaining detergency), oxidation level and other factors...

 

[blueone]

There is no evidence, filters have a sprung valve that responds to oil pressure, and most if not all modern engines have an additional spring valve in the return oil gallery that responds to oil pressure.

Just as I thought.