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Uptone refusing to sell me ISO Regen!!!

Jinjuku

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Here's another point that John Swenson made. He believes if the cable is 3 foot or under then the cable, if in spec, isn't going to be a culprit.

Users would be better served by renting a USB analyzer and looking at the output of their computer. If the SI is clean then move on.
 

DonH56

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It's not like this (USB isolation) is a new or never-discussed issue; you'd think all the DAC guys would have good isolation from USB noise by now. As has been said, Amir's measurements indicate it is so, save one... ;) I suspect the biggest issue with USB is not data loss (signal integrity, SI) but ground/power noise from the PC.

I haven't looked at the chip; does it actually retime the signals or just isolate? Not that any asynchronous DAC is going to care anyway....
 

RayDunzl

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Last edited:

Blumlein 88

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Here's another point that John Swenson made. He believes if the cable is 3 foot or under then the cable, if in spec, isn't going to be a culprit.

Users would be better served by renting a USB analyzer and looking at the output of their computer. If the SI is clean then move on.

Yes I remember reading that comment. If you really want to hear a difference get a really long cable and try his device. So let me see, with your regular cable you hear no improvement, but get an extra long cable you don't need and you can hear one. Sounds like a good reason to spend money to me....NOT! Actually sounds like creating a story that people are likely to find easy to swallow. That longer cables cause more noise which his device filters out. The whole point about digital connections is their very high resistance to being polluted by noise. Audiophiles just can't let go of analog thinking.
 

RayDunzl

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I haven't looked at the chip; does it actually retime the signals or just isolate?

Don't know...

Can't find anything more than what is stated in the press release.

That involved the ICE08USBA and ICE08USBB

Now theres a ICE08USBC which combines the prior iterations. But I find no gory details. Do you speak Australian?

https://www.google.com/search?q=ICE08USBC
 

Blumlein 88

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Yeah, but you gotta use exceptional speakers, like Swenson's Lowthers. Otherwise, the huge difference will simply not be revealed.
It occurs to me. Maybe Swenson hangs his speakers on wires to simulate low frequency close in jitter. Once trained to hear it, he doesn't need to measure it directly.

You pull the speaker forward and release. It then swings like a pendulum. The frequency at which it swings is adjustable by the length of the wires holding the speaker. The level of the jitter is controlled by the amplitude of the swinging. You get perfect, adjustable, repeatable, very low frequency jitter of the resulting sound.

Of course Ray has already stumbled upon an alternate method of simulation using ceiling fans. What I call a 'cooler' solution.
 

Blumlein 88

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Why aren't the audio guys using USB-C yet?

It's newer, so it has to sound better, right?
First off a pox on the USB C people. There really isn't a standard.

Besides some might want to go the other way. Parallel port perhaps. One connection for each bit.
 

Sal1950

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Knew it couldn't last. Too many objective guys started gathering in the thread at CA for the voice of sanity to hold sway. Chris put a cork in it and locked it.
Cowards. :D
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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Why aren't the audio guys using USB-C yet?

It's newer, so it has to sound better, right?
Hey, if it were better, Swenson would have included it in the ISO Regen, right?

I am really not aware of any audio devices using USB-C, offhand. If there are, they are pretty rare. Is there a problem? A/B work fine for me.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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Knew it couldn't last. Too many objective guys started gathering in the thread at CA for the voice of sanity to hold sway. Chris put a cork in it and locked it.
Cowards. :D
Just as well, though.

I see that Amir has calmly posted his version of events at WBF. Between him and Alex, I think we all know who is telling the truth.
 
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amirm

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Here is that post:
--

So a bit of breathing room from LA audio show and I thought I remark on some of the other points Alex has made:
Superdad;453954 said:
Sure I can. After all the lies, insults, distortions, and other venom you have spewed towards my partner John Swenson and me, you are the last person on earth I would want to sell one of our products too.

[...]

P.S. Since I accused you of lying and I am sure you will ask, I'll give you one example: Somewhere on WBF you said that you "met and spoke extensively with John Swenson." That's only if you count 15 minutes of casual conversation (with you doing most of the talking) outside the elevators when we ran into you at RMAF 2015. Plus plenty of misquoting and other distortions of the truth.

So a bit of history. As I mentioned, I was asked to measure efficacy of original Regen by one of Alex's customers. Meanwhile I had bought an iFi DAC with one of their "USB cleaners." So I thought it would make a good case to measure both and report on them: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...t-Jitterbug-and-Uptone-Regen-USB-Conditioners

I did not know Alex, his alias superdad, or John. So it is not true at all that I singled out Alex, his company or John. Two products were tested from two different companies. Results showed that the Regen actually added some distortion, the opposite of what it is supposed to do in people's mind.

As you can read in that thread, there was some back and forth from Alex (superdad). He promised their own measurements but this did not come to pass. Later he said I should seek them out at RMAF show.

Fast forward to the show and I am coming down the elevators. The door opens and I see that Alex is in the lobby. I say hello and he calls in John and introduces him to me. We then had a great, in-depth discussion contrary to what Alex says above. We went over John's career and background. We talked about the motivation for him building this device. We talked about the problem that manifested itself in the measurement. We talked about him not being able to afford to buy the Audio Precision analyzer. I explained how making USB signals stronger is the opposite of what you want to do as that increases the energy of digital pulses inside the DAC. He explain that he was resolving an issue he had seen with older USB products.

I then offered to help them fix the above problem. I offered my consulting time and energy for free. I offered to test the changes to the device using my analyzer until we can have it resolved.

We talked so much that by the time we were done, the show was over and there was no one left in the lobby (we did start close to end of the show). And meanwhile had someone else come and talk to us in the middle of our conversation.

Here is what Alex himself post on that thread after our face to face meeting:

Superdad;342870 said:
Some people are rather stuck in the camp of "If it can't be measured, it can't be heard." I think more open and scientific minds would think "If it can be heard, then perhaps we are measuring the wrong things." Yet anytime that is brought up--as I did when we met Amir (who is actually a VERY nice fellow!)--the argument turns to "Well you have not proven that people are hearing anything" (ABX testes, etc.). That's where I get off the merry-go-round. Most designers get off there too. Ask any if they needed definitive measurements or a full double-blind ABX study to choose the film capacitors or resistors they use in their speakers or preamp, or if that wonderfully measuring OPAMP conveys music the way their refined-for-years discrete stage does.

I bolded the self-serving part for me above. :) I mean he even capitalizes "VERY." :) :) Even that comment pales in comparison to how well I thought our meeting went and how positive I was toward the two of them.

Now Alex says that was some casual conversation and I did most of the talking? It was neither. It was a good 30+ minute chat. Heck, even 15 minutes would have shown a lot of goodwill toward them. Who would stand there and interact with "his enemy" for that long at a show? I could have spent the time listening to more music and interacting with companies. Instead I chose to spend the time with them and offer my help to improve their products.

Our interactions on this forum ended with Alex saying he would do a blind listening test at his house and his equipment:

index.php


I then gave him the option to back out and I guess he did by not responding further.

So there really are no facts to support Alex's allegation that I have it out for him, that I lie, etc. That simply is not true and is not who I am. Period.
 
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amirm

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RayDunzl

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Thomas savage

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