Starting with turntables

[recycle]

It's time to publish statistics:
Physical music sales continue to rise, with 4.4 million total sales in the first half of 2023. That’s a 20% increase compared to the same period in 2022. Drilling total sales data down looks like this:

1. Vinyl — 60.3% | 3.6 million sales (26%+ YoY)
2. CD — 38.3% | 1.7 million (15%+ YoY)
3. Cassette — 1.4% | 62,000 (-14.6% YoY)

(source: https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2023/07/12/music-industry-data-luminate-2023-mid-year-report/)


We live in a highly technological world where you just need to take your smartphone out of your pocket to listen to your favorite artist for free. Meanwhile, more and more people are buying physical media (mainly vinyl): there must be some mystical explanation about this

 

[Robin L]

Here's my anecdote: I am a Boomer dad with three Zoomer sons. I listen to records. None of my sons do. None even own hifi other than small BT speakers. They are content streaming into their ear buds.

I've got two stepsons. One runs a cafe, plays and presents music at the cafe. Has a turntable, never uses it but still has a lot of records. Doesn't have time to play records, streams music in the cafe. The other is an IT guy, works from home, streams music in the car, otherwise is keen on video games. Their kids aren't very much interested in music as far as I can tell, more interested in video games. My wife will play music in her car off an IPod I loaded for her, usually skips anything I loaded for myself. Of all of these people, I'm the one spending the most time listening to recordings of music.

 

[Angsty]

It's time to publish statistics:
Physical music sales continue to rise, with 4.4 million total sales in the first half of 2023. That’s a 20% increase compared to the same period in 2022. Drilling total sales data down looks like this:

1. Vinyl — 60.3% | 3.6 million sales (26%+ YoY)
2. CD — 38.3% | 1.7 million (15%+ YoY)
3. Cassette — 1.4% | 62,000 (-14.6% YoY)

(source: https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2023/07/12/music-industry-data-luminate-2023-mid-year-report/)


We live in a highly technological world where you just need to take your smartphone out of your pocket to listen to your favorite artist for free. Meanwhile, more and more people are buying physical media (mainly vinyl): there must be some mystical explanation about this

Yeah but in the first half of 2023, vinyl sales were $632 million. Total revenue from paid subscription services was $5.5 billion.

I like vinyl, but let’s not get it twisted - it is still only a sliver of the total music media market.

The message for vinyl newbies is that, even though vinyl has been in resurgence for many years, you will still have a harder time finding your favorite albums on vinyl versus on streaming platforms. That is unless you are into old, obscure pressings which are not available via streaming. I have a couple of those.

U.S. Recorded-Music Revenue Grows Almost 10% But Vinyl Sales, Streaming Subscriptions Level Off

The RIAA's 2023 mid-year report showed revenue growing nearly 10%, but vinyl sales and streaming subscriptions are slowing down.

variety.com

 

[MattHooper]

I know on this site you are not supposed to speak of vinyl having good sound quality. But dayum...I just keep having this experience over and over. I've been listening a lot to a new album by one of my favourite pop artists. Mostly I listen on my mac desktop or the car stereo. Pop is really often made for that stuff, and both my desktop and car stereo have a way of punching out the sound that sort of "feels right" for the music. I tried listening to the digital streams on both my 2 channel set up and home theater surround, and both certainly brought out nice qualities, but it almost too smooth and refined, lost some guts and snap. Like some synth percussion lines that really pop normally were less solid in a way. So I bought the vinyl version, spun it tonight and...voila! That "pop out of the air" snap and drive and solidity were there! There just seems to be this texture to vinyl (on my system) that I love. Along with all the other goodies delivered by my two channel system, like the massive soundstaging, and fine details.

Vinyl can just sound fuggin' great!

 

[Galliardist]

For newbies, a $500 RCM as an ante to get into vinyl could be discouraging. There are less expensive ways to keep vinyl clean:

1. Spray cleaner and paper towels. This is what I did when I first started. Method spray is my preferred, easily obtainable cleaner, diluted 1:10 with distilled water - straight Method is too concentrated for record cleaning. I used lots of paper towels, but it works when you have only a few records and more time than money.

2. A Spin-Clean. This is a small trough that allows you to hand turn records through a water bath and affixed cleaning pads. $75 on Amazon. You still need to rinse the records with distilled water and dry
them. Better than cleaning method #1 for larger collections, but does require using a cleaning fluid containing a flocculant to get the best results - such as the Spin Clean concentrate.

3. A Record Doctor RCM. This is a vacuum record cleaning machine where you turn the record yourself instead of letting a motor do it. It’s about $300 on Amazon now, so it’s a bigger commitment. I had one of these and it works pretty well if you don’t turn the record too quickly. Fortunately, you do not need to vacuum clean a record before each playing - one cleaning can be enough if stored properly.

At $500+, I’d recommend looking at a Humminguru ultrasonic cleaner. That’s well outside of “newbie” territory if you ask me. I have one and enjoy using it - it gets better results than the Record Doctor.

Like the OP, I started with an inherited record collect and no turntable. I liked the experience, so I kept going. Ten years later, I’m happy to buy all formats to enjoy music.

Why should it ever be the case that some equipment is "newbie" and some "too expensive"? Why not "do it once and do it right?" Why should someone mess about with paper towels and some crappy turntable that they then have to upgrade and still have to learn about setup?

My advice to learners (better word) would be not to get a turntable until they have got a decent digital setup properly installed. If they are interested in vinyl, take the leap then, and do it once, and do it right.

 

[Galliardist]

Likewise, with vinyl, I know I've got plenty of music in my collection that I discovered going down specific vinyl rabbit holes, vs what I tended to encounter on streaming.
I also came to be more familiar with the music in my record collection, played it more, than the tracks and artists I discovered surfing music digitally. That's because vinyl forced me to be more reflective and curate my collection in ways that endlessly flicking through streaming options on my phone and pressing "favourite" never achieved.

I keep reading this stuff, often while listening through an entire album, or an entire long symphony or other long piece, and it does leave me to wonder if I really am the only person on the planet who clicks an album on a streaming service and sits through the entire thing... I think it says more about you (not you personally as such: lots of others say this) than the medium, frankly.

Still, if it works for you, why not?

 

[Angsty]

Why should it ever be the case that some equipment is "newbie" and some "too expensive"? Why not "do it once and do it right?" Why should someone mess about with paper towels and some crappy turntable that they then have to upgrade and still have to learn about setup?

I’d posit that many newbies are unwilling to wager big money on the gamble that vinyl is worth it. If you have zero experience with vinyl, why dump a lot of money into gear?

The OP requested a recommendation for a turntable around $500. To suggest a $500 RCM at this stage would be a mismatch of experience and outlay.

 

[MattHooper]

I keep reading this stuff, often while listening through an entire album, or an entire long symphony or other long piece, and it does leave me to wonder if I really am the only person on the planet who clicks an album on a streaming service and sits through the entire thing... I think it says more about you (not you personally as such: lots of others say this) than the medium, frankly.

Still, if it works for you, why not?

Absolutely! That's always been my position. It's about the individual. As I've said before, there are plenty of people who have no problem, like you, being attentive to digital streaming music. It's not a problem you need to solve.

Though such explanations I think aren't only about individuals - there is likely to be something also in the mediums, the experiences, that explain why it can have certain effects on some people. Like I know tons of people like myself whose attention span seems to have been shortened by the internet era. I hear complaints about it all the time. I used to effortlessly get through many books, now it's a challenge. On the other hand my friend has no problem whatsoever reading books - he's always reading large tomes (just finished Moby Dick).

So I think that individuals react differently to the internet, digital life in general, or streaming music in particular, like how individuals react differently to alcohol. The explanation is found in both parts - aspects of the medium (for instance how the aspects in how it differs from vinyl can encourage instant a constant searching behaviour), and aspects of an individual.

 

[Angsty]

My advice to learners (better word) would be not to get a turntable until they have got a decent digital setup properly installed.

My $100 Schiit DAC sounds exactly like my $650 Topping DAC and my much more expensive Bryston. The cost threshold for excellence is lower for digital than it is for vinyl, as I know of no new $100 turntable that I’d recommend.

There’s nothing wrong with getting digital done first; it’s easy to do so. Vinyl will cost more to get to above average performance for the category.

 

[Leporello]

Of course not. It's about caring for the music - and actually owning a physical copy of that music is important. Part of the vinyl thing for those that weren't there first time 'round is that physical connection and having to be careful and look after that imperfect medium.

It seems then that vinyl has the ability to make young people to discover physical objects rather than music.

 

[MattHooper]

It seems then that vinyl has the ability to make young people to discover how physical objects influence their experience of listening to music.

Fixed for you.

 

[Galliardist]

It seems then that vinyl has the ability to make young people to discover physical objects rather than music.

If young people feel the need for physical objects or emotional contact with music, then rather than a turntable I'd recommend learning to play a musical instrument, or maybe a formal form of dancing by that I mean anything from Renaissance to modern ballroom or hip hop related dance forms, depending on the music they want that contact with).

Putting records onto a turntable and playing them may involve physical objects and listening to music, but still a poor second.

 

[Galliardist]

I’d posit that many newbies are unwilling to wager big money on the gamble that vinyl is worth it. If you have zero experience with vinyl, why dump a lot of money into gear?

The OP requested a recommendation for a turntable around $500. To suggest a $500 RCM at this stage would be a mismatch of experience and outlay.

Experience?

What's so difficult about operating a record cleaning machine? I understand it involves spending some money, but it's hardly the case that you have to spend years cleaning vinyl with a brush or paper towels(!) to gain understanding of the record cleaning process before you can be trusted with a cleaning machine. You've probably wrecked all your records with paper towels first anyway..

I don't believe, either, that playing records on a turntable with a fixed cartridge for a few years is necessary to learning how and why a cartridge should be aligned and balanced on someone's second turntable. Maybe setting up a Linn style suspension is a bit harder, but quite frankly a lot of this "newbie" stuff is insulting.

 

[Galliardist]

If young people feel the need for physical objects or emotional contact with music, then rather than a turntable I'd recommend learning to play a musical instrument, or maybe a formal form of dancing by that I mean anything from Renaissance to modern ballroom or hip hop related dance forms, depending on the music they want that contact with).

Putting records onto a turntable and playing them may involve physical objects and listening to music, but still a poor second.

Just to add, there are other reasons why a young person would want a turntable. I don't mean this as a general anti-turntable post or anything. I can write those instead if you want but not here.

 

[madrac]

Neil Antin has published (free) an excellent record cleaning guide - on vinyl press.

https://thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf

 

[Angsty]

Experience?

What's so difficult about operating a record cleaning machine? I understand it involves spending some money, but it's hardly the case that you have to spend years cleaning vinyl with a brush or paper towels(!) to gain understanding of the record cleaning process before you can be trusted with a cleaning machine. You've probably wrecked all your records with paper towels first anyway..

I don't believe, either, that playing records on a turntable with a fixed cartridge for a few years is necessary to learning how and why a cartridge should be aligned and balanced on someone's second turntable. Maybe setting up a Linn style suspension is a bit harder, but quite frankly a lot of this "newbie" stuff is insulting.

If a newbie has the disposable cash to spend on a Linn as their first turntable, I’d support that. However, a new Linn Majik LP12 starts at around US$5000 these days, which is ten times more than what our OP requested.

 

[Galliardist]

If a newbie has the disposable cash to spend on a Linn as their first turntable, I’d support that. However, a new Linn Majik LP12 starts at around US$5000 these days, which is ten times more than what our OP requested.

You just missed my point. Completely.


Nor was I suggesting anyone buy a Linn Sondek here. (For all it was lighter in the bass, I preferred and owned the Axis). What I said was that setting up a Linn style suspension is "a bit harder". Not "buy a Sondek". Would you like to put some more words in my mouth?

 

[AaronJ]

Neil Antin has published (free) an excellent record cleaning guide - on vinyl press.

https://thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf

I started using this method recently and give it my highest recommendation. I saved a little $ on the outlay by using white vinegar for the acid step, and I fortunately had a bottle of Ilford Ilfotol that I was already using in my cleaning process. Combining this cleaning method with quiet Denon carts DL-103 and DL-110 has nearly eliminated all surface noise outside of clicks.

 

[Angsty]

You just missed my point. Completely.


Nor was I suggesting anyone buy a Linn Sondek here. (For all it was lighter in the bass, I preferred and owned the Axis). What I said was that setting up a Linn style suspension is "a bit harder". Not "buy a Sondek". Would you like to put some more words in my mouth?

Perhaps we are missing one another’s points. Setting up a Linn-style suspension these days is not a requirement for starting with vinyl, especially since vinyl is an experiment for many. One can get great sound with less initial effort. The same goes for cartridge set-up when you can buy a turntable with the cartridge already installed.

I am contemplating a glide path to vinyl entry versus setting up hurdles that are higher than they need to be at a $500 starting point.

 

[Galliardist]

Perhaps we are missing one another’s points. Setting up a Linn-style suspension these days is not a requirement for starting with vinyl, especially since vinyl is an experiment for many. One can get great sound with less initial effort. The same goes for cartridge set-up when you can buy a turntable with the cartridge already installed.

I am contemplating a glide path to vinyl entry versus setting up hurdles that are higher than they need to be at a $500 starting point.

I get that, but it doesn't mean that I agree that the complexities can't or shouldn't be managed by someone getting their first turntable.

I wouldn't necessarily trust that a pre-fitted cartridge is correctly aligned, either, unless it is automatically the case because of the arm/headshell design (e.g. three point fixing or P mount). Why? Been there, done that, had to correct it myself. You'd probably have to set balance and antiskating yourself regardless as a minimum.

Nobody should think they can just buy a turntable, plonk it down anywhere and get good sound. How a turntable works has to be understood on day one.