Cayin Mini-CD MKII CD Player Review

[Palladium]

thank-you I wondered what is the best way to play back a cd nowadays ? transport to topping dac or cd drive to pc then dac ?

Rip from a cheapo portable USB DVD drive into FLAC, than play it on a budget Topping/SMSL DAC?

 

[antcollinet]

I don't know why anyone would want a CD player these days but if you do, I guess the Cayin is not half bad. Suggest using an outboard DAC with it if you want the best performance.

Speaking as someone who has just purchased a CD player (admittedly at £21 I didn't pay very much) - I do know.

I'm a recent refugee from the Amazon prime grab back of being able to choose what to stream, but was fortunate enough at a similar time to get a free trial of Apple music with some airpods.

Conclusion I've found is I dont like streaming - and I think (for me) the probem is too much choice. What the hell do I want to listen to? I have no idea.

I also like the fact that when listening to CD I tend to listen to a whole album as intended rather than skipping at the first indication a track is not grabbing me.

So my future music will be Radio Paradise for finding new (to me) music - together with purchasing a couple of CD's (at retail price) for around the apple subscription cost - plus whatever I find at close to free in the charity shop bins.

Plus of course the odd vinyl purchase


It would be really interesting to see how an entry level 80s model such as mine performs compared to the two measured here.

 

[Blumlein 88]

thank-you I wondered what is the best way to play back a cd nowadays ? transport to topping dac or cd drive to pc then dac ?

Assuming the digital out is not malfunctioning it is providing all the info on the disc. So transport to DAC should get you as good as the DAC is or the CD medium. Going to CD drive to PC then DAC could allow DSP if you are using that.

 

[tonapo]

I still buy CDs, I have a Cambridge Audio CXC Transport in my Topping D90 DAC. That being said, I do also rip the CDs, and can listen via Roon (raspberry pi4 with ropieee streamer into the same DAC). So I can still see a market for players.

 

[jamescarter1982]

Rip from a cheapo portable USB DVD drive into FLAC, than play it on a budget Topping/SMSL DAC?

is there a way to test what comes out of that drive ? do we know what level of noise and distortion that gives us .my cd players sound pretty good to me I wonder at what point the sound becomes acceptable or decent or really good . what level of distortion and noise is that

 

[Mulder]

I can see several reasons to collect CDs.
One reason is that several of the big companies only invest in commercially viable artists. Some smaller independent record companies on the other hand, for example when it comes to jazz, don't put their music out on streaming platforms at all (because they don't get paid).
I also buy records to support the artist.

Another reason could be that older versions of music released on CD are better mastered than the remasters available on the streaming platforms. It's actually quite common. This happend for example with all the older Tom Waits recordings. Another example are the records once recorded by DECCA with Rolling Stones on CD from London Recordings. They are much better sounding than todays crappy remasters.

The third reason is that music you are listening to can suddenly disappear from the selection on your streaming plattform - or not exist at all.

A fourth, as others have already mentioned, is that you play entire albums in a more focused way. I would not be completely surprised if the price of used CDs will soon increase. At least for some CDs. I think I already see tendencies towards that.

 

[Sokel]

Interesting review,more interesting comparison.

Thanks Amir!

(I have to find a way to measure my old Pioneer SACD player! )

 

[DSJR]

I used to sell the Mimik and out away from a Linn system, the 'sound' was always a touch 'grainy' to my ears (yes, a subjective comment but it was consistent, at least when compared to the 2.5x price Karik III/Numerik III and replacement Ikemi machines). Still a better focused 'sound' on dem to an Arcam of the period or similar.

Gawd this hobby/interest is so damned *tribal*!

 

[TonyJZX]

as i keep saying i dont think any CD player is worth it to me given that the ACT of playing a CD is now foreign to me

find the disc, stick it in the player, for most discs you have to read the track list and hit the right track numbers and skip the ones you dont want to hear

how far we have come

its easier for me to just FLAC new CDs and send them to a nas

as far as CD prices... most of the discs i find are super cheap... not unusual to find sub $10 delivered... this is a no brainer

however there are some discs that just cost money... eg. $40-$50 or more... simply because they were limited print and that's just the way it is

to me i just pay it... there's no other way and i dont like spotify... i did use spotify to run the album to see if i like it but in the end, just pay what it costs

BTW... i do remember seeing compact player units for around $100? I wonder if they still there?

 

[MCH]

I was very proud of myself when I found instructions online and managed to fix my early 90s Sony cd player's tray, that needed some grease, but besides that was in perfect working condition, very fast from charge to play (opposite to optical drives) and very silent (same) and with buttons that give you direct access to the tracks.... only to find out that my very praised 2022 sota topping DAC would not manage to give music without constant dropouts from it...
Yes, sometimes technology goes in circles.

This forced me to spend 6 months ripping my CD collection, and since the topping DAC is gone, I went to streaming and returned to CDs (fully agree with @tonycollinet + I found out that my most of my treasured box sets of my favourite artists were not in the streaming services)... but too late for the Sony to return to service, now I stream the rips and sometimes look at the box and leaflet while listening.
Would I start to buy CDs today? Probably not. Would I dump the ones I have? Not voluntary

 

[sarumbear]

I'm not sure I agree with these ideas of 16 bit or 96 db CD standard. Many players were 86-92 db on THD, and better on SNR. Does that mean they cannot do 16 bit? No it does not. You cannot hear the difference in -100 db and -80 db distortion. At lower levels the distortion is lower too. It does not mean these devices lack 16 bit dynamic range (some do) or that they cannot play a very low level signal if the noise if low enough (which it often is). Plus no speakers offer -96 db distortion levels.

If you can play a full scale signal at inaudible distortion and noise levels are at or below 96 db, then it can convey all you can possibly hear in 16 bit source material. In this particular review both devices have too little SNR or Dynamic Range. The distortion is a non-issue to listeners. The noise levels are not beyond reproach. There is no good reason for this to be the case.

In other words you said 16-bit is too much as we can't hear the difference when the resolution is lower?

 

[Rja4000]

witching to S/PDIF on Cayin we still can't get the ideal 16 bit dithered response (about 93 dB):

To compare,
I measured the DAC section on my SONY PCM-R300 DAC recorder



SINAD
We are very close to the CD players performance

I also measured the digital loopback with a 44.1kHz 16 bits test signal

SINAD 44.1kHz 16 bits
This sets the maximum -perfect result- we could hope in 16 bits.

(See the full measurements post for more results)

EDIT: I burned my own test CD.
See my first results here, in this thread.

 

[TonyJZX]

my interpretation of that is that you need a very good amp to be able to resolve 96dB?

so if your amp is going to 'dampen' or worsen the sound then having such a good cd player is moot anyway?

 

[Nango]

Front plate labeled right, only one source, even the display letters with no serifs, is this really a chinese brand?

 

[Tangband]

In other words you said 16-bit is too much as we can't hear the difference when the resolution is lower?

Very true.
This test shows that the Cayin player cant output a correct 16 signal from the spdif output - this is clear evidence that one can not trust in that ” all ” cd transports are the same . Blumlein 88 needs to think this over .

 

[Tangband]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Cayin Mini-CD MKII CD transport and stereo player. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $279.
View attachment 303504
The unit comes with a good looking and feeling metal case. I like the large display but controls didn't seem very responsive. Below it is my circa 1998 LINN MIMIK cd player. It cost US $1,595 then which would be almost $3,000 today! I thought it would be nice to compare the performance of one against the other.

Back side shows the usual connections:
View attachment 303505
The external adapter is a bit of a buzzkill. They should have charged $299 and put the darn power supply inside.

Here are its specs:

Output Level:	2.0V
Frequency Response:	20Hz~20kHz (+0.5dB)
Distortion and Noise:	0.007% (1kHz)
S/N Ratio:	90dB (20-20KHz, A-weighted)
Dynamic Range:	90dB (20-20KHz, A-weighted)
Crosstalk:	77 dB
Digital output:	S/PDIF (RCA) & I2S (HDMI)
Output Impedance SPDIF:	75ohm
Dimensions:	240mmx213mmx58mm (WxDxH)
Net Weight:	~2.0kg
Maximum Power Consumption:	12W
Disc Support:	12cm CD-Audio Disc

Cayin MINI-CD MKII Player vs LINN MIMIK Measurements
By definition, I can only run static files burned onto a CD and not sweeps. So we can't run many tests but what is there, should give us a good idea. Let's start with the dashboard using analog out from the Cayin:
View attachment 303506

Nice to see the full 2 volt output but sad to see that we can't come close to resolving 16 bits with a SINAD of just 82 dB. Third harmonic dominates SINAD. Fortunately it meets spec.

The LINN does better but still fails the reach 16 bit fidelity:
View attachment 303507

Switching to S/PDIF on Cayin we still can't get the ideal 16 bit dithered response (about 93 dB):
View attachment 303508

Dynamic range using Cayin analog out still misses the mark:
View attachment 303509

It actually bests the LINN by a bit:
View attachment 303510

The last test I have for you is 16-bit jitter (so you are going to see a lot of valid spikes):
View attachment 303511

Blue at the bottom is the DAC in the Audio Precision analyzer. As you can see, it has much lower noise than both. The LINN has flattish noise floor whereas the Cayin has more noise around the 1 kHz ("skirt"), but less at higher frequencies. Difference is slight though.

Conclusions
The Cayin could certainly do better both in noise and distortion departments. Sadly, while LINN MIMIK has lower distortion, it still has too much noise and distortion to get us full fidelity out of 16 bit format. Little did we know then that we were not getting all that we were putting on the tray.

I do like the honest specs from Cayin. It is a rare thing these days.

I don't know why anyone would want a CD player these days but if you do, I guess the Cayin is not half bad. Suggest using an outboard DAC with it if you want the best performance.

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Amirm - can you measure the digital output from the mimik player ?

 

[LTig]

”Switching to S/PDIF on Cayin we still can't get the ideal 16 bit dithered response (about 93 dB)”

IMV a CD player has to output the data on the CD at its digital output exactly as they are stored. It must not dither them - this is the task of the DAC.

This is evidence that all CD transports dont put out a correct signal from spdif out .

To find out whether a CD player outputs correct data just record a CD digitally and compare the data with the rip of said CD. They should be identical. Have you (or anyone else) done this?

 

[Rja4000]

To find out whether a CD player outputs correct data just record a CD digitally and compare the data with the rip of said CD. They should be identical. Have you (or anyone else) done this?

I'll try to do that.
I'll need to find back a working CD recorder and blow the dust of it, though

 

[LTig]

I'll try to do that.
I'll need to find back a working CD recorder and blow the dust of it, though

Or a soundcard with digital input.

 

[Rja4000]

Or a soundcard with digital input.

Sorry, I misunderstood.
Yes, sure.