Bruno Putzeys reaches out to the subjectivists

[Thomas savage]

http://www.brunoputzeys.be/r4.php

Apparently Mr. Putzeys isn't big on the influx of refugees in his part of the world.

http://www.brunoputzeys.be/r4.php?item=31

Or security theater as practiced in the USA>

Funny I don't read it that way..

On the second point, he's right but it's about making people feel safe ( active deterrent too) and that often means doing faily illogical things.

I'm reminded of a incident years ago, some guy hid a bomb in a Sony walkman on a flight out of India. After its discovery the particular airline banned all Sony Walkmans from their aircraft.. Just Sony Walkmans radios etc I'm aware of this as my dad used to travel to India regularly and they made a fuss about his Sony world service radio so he had to buy another one that was not Sony, mad world..

 

[oivavoi]

If you read his earlier articles, interviews and see his ideas from a decade or so back when he was with Philips they read like some completely different person vs newer interviews since he has his own high end company or worked with people like Grimm. The answer is extremely simple. His work and design ability is at a very high level. Nevertheless, he has become the Smart Engineer. His products are still top notch, but don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Play the game, say the right thing, spend more time developing an aura of mystery rather than spilling out the hard numbers. It opens up pocketbooks.

Do you have any links to some of his earlier articles or interviews?
(Autocorrect wanted me to write "his earlier art girls")

 

[Purité Audio]

Yep, we're aware of that.

Yes I expect you are more used to this kind of thing from designers,
Albert Schweikert from another place,

Originally Posted by Speedskater
Why would anyone buy or even try a product that makes unsupported technical claims?
Hello Speedskater,
I found it interesting when you did not answer the questions I personally responded to you at audio Circle. Once again, you are asking a similar question, which needs no answer, if you are a knowledgable thinking man. First, as you are well aware, MasterBuilt has made no claims that they can't directly prove. Whether or not they want to respond to you is another question. Second, as Mike LaVine has pointed out, this group of audiophiles does not buy expensive products based on specs or ads, they buy what apeals to them on many levels. Sound, beauty, aesthtics, and utility are far more important than which Japanese receiver toutes the lowest distortion. When you have spent almost 40 years buying and selling very high quality stereo components, you'll come to understand what our members are trhing to teach you. No hard feelings here, friend, only my love of great sound (along with the truth) motivates my response.
I

 

[DonH56]

The cartoon reminds me of a certain guitar amp maker many years ago who, as part of an "upgrade", indexed the gain knob from 0 to 15. The actual output did not change, nor anything else significant in the amplifier, but they changed the silkscreen on the front so their amp went to 15. I have no idea how much if any it affected sales, but a guy in a band who managed to blow his up and brought it in for repair did note it was supposed to go to 15 now, what happened?

 

[oivavoi]

By the way, I heard the Kii Threes today for the first time. That's why I came across this interview in the first place, to read up a bit on the underlying design philosophy before listening.

Sighted listening impressions: Well, this is obviously a pair of very very good speakers. Or rather, it's a very very good complete system. What impressed me the most, perhaps, was the bass they produced. I don't mean just that it went deep - my sonos play:5 also goes very deep in spite of being a small box - but that I perceived the bass as really clean and tight. There was virtually no boominess in the room, in spite of it being small and not acoustically treated at all. It really seems as if Putzeys has accomplished his goal: To make a pair of speakers that can be put in most rooms, and which "just work". They sounded clearly superior to most other systems I've heard.

The clarity was also very good, and they produced a good stereo image.

Nevertheless, I was slightly underwhelmed given my very high expectations. This is what it is of course, sighted listening at one occasion in one particular room. But I wouldn't rate my own system as inferior, TBH - which consists of the DM10 monitors from AVI, a rather small sub from Ken Kreisel and management/integration in the bass region with minidsp and dirac live. I would probably even say that I prefer my own system. Maybe I'm just subconsciously rationalizing, of course. There are two commercial systems I've heard though that I would subjectively rate as clearly much better than both the Kiis and my own system: The Grimm LS1, also a Putzeys creation, and the Beolab 90 (even though there was something about the beolabs which sounded slighly slightly artificial to me). I've also heard some DIY systems which blow everything else out of the water, but that's another story.

But all in all, the Kiis sounded very good. For most people in most rooms, I think this might be a perfect solution.

 

[RayDunzl]

Was there another pair of speakers in the room with which to compare?

 

[oivavoi]

Was there another pair of speakers in the room with which to compare?

No. It was in a private apartment. So all based on my acoustic memory, with material I'm familiar with. Listened on the tracks on my Sennheiser 650s (which I perceive to be reasonably neutral) on my way there to have a fresh reference. Still, not the final word on anything, this.

EDIT: Realized that I didn't put to words what underwhelmed me. It's like there was a very very minor lack of clarity compared to the very best. A ever so thin veil over the music, or between the music and me. This veil was much thinner than with most of the speakers/systems/rooms I've heard, but to my ears it was still there.

 

[Purité Audio]

The Grimm's are excellent we had them here until very recently, and the Beolabs are the best speakers you can buy , I think you would really need to hear any speaker in your own room to make a really valid comparison.
Keith

 

[amirm]

What means are they?

For amplifiers a switchbox to AB or ABX test them against each other blind.

 

[oivavoi]

The Grimm's are excellent we had them here until very recently, and the Beolabs are the best speakers you can buy , I think you would really need to hear any speaker in your own room to make a really valid comparison.
Keith

True. The owner actually offered to let me borrow them - very generous of him. So I might do that. That's obviosly the only way to do a valid comparison.

 

[fas42]

Over the years I've done a great deal of circuit simulation of amplifiers - which all work extremely nicely when all the conditions around them are "perfect". But throw in realistic mains behaviour, power supplies, load conditions, and it all goes bad, quite quickly - it's quite easy to get an amplifier which on paper works nicely to then exhibit distortion figures which are, say, 100 times worse, purely in a simulation, by giving it an environment which is realistic, rather than a dream state. And that includes feedback - again, purely in simulation it's quite straightforward to observe what the feedback is actually doing when "under stress" - and depending upon the circuit it may still be functioning textbook like, or, the circuit may be close to chaotic conditions, because the parts are working at the limits of their capability; all bets are off. This is where very wideband amplifiers win handsomely; the circuitry is alway working 'correctly'.

 

[watchnerd]

By reputation he's not famed for PR rehtoric, in fact the opposite so I'd view his comments with a good deal less cynicism personally.

It would be great if he popped in here but that's extremely unlikely unfortunately.

It's not cynicism at all.

He possibly believes it to be true. Just as Bob Stuart believes MQA's claims to be true.

The best marketing is that which is sincere and non-obvious. But, nonetheless, evangelizing a point of view to advance the business.

 

[watchnerd]

Have any of you got a actual argument against his designs , their merit from a audio engineering POV? Or are we just hand waving based a a interview from 3 years ago...

I haven't heard nCore-based amps, but I have owned 2 different generations of B&O IcePower-based amps, which share a fair amount of design similarities. My current daily listening mono block power amps are IcePower-based.

If I'm going to paint a broad brush, I think today's SOTA Class D amplification offers so many practical benefits (efficiency, small size, low heat) that even if it only offered SQ parity with class AB topologies, the practical benefits alone are enough to endorse the technology.

 

[oivavoi]

It's not cynicism at all.

He undoubtedly believes it to be true. Just as Bob Stuart believes MQA's claims to be true.

The best marketing is that which is sincere and non-obvious. But, nonetheless, evangelizing a point of view to advance the business.

There's quite a lot of research which shows that people usually end up believing the things that they have a rational interest in advancing. Rich people often believe for example, deeply and honestly, that everybody will be better off in the end if taxes are low and social benefits are scrapped. And it just so happens that this exact policy is in line with their own economic self-interest. Not hypocrisy or something like that, just rationalization and cognitive dissonance.

 

[watchnerd]

There's quite a lot of research which shows that people usually end up believing the things that they have a rational interest in advancing. Rich people often believe for example, deeply and honestly, that everybody will be better off in the end if taxes are low and social benefits are scrapped. And it just so happens that this exact policy is in line with their own economic self-interest. Not hypocrisy or something like that, just rationalization and cognitive dissonance.

Exactly.

 

[fas42]

No. It was in a private apartment. So all based on my acoustic memory, with material I'm familiar with. Listened on the tracks on my Sennheiser 650s (which I perceive to be reasonably neutral) on my way there to have a fresh reference. Still, not the final word on anything, this.

EDIT: Realized that I didn't put to words what underwhelmed me. It's like there was a very very minor lack of clarity compared to the very best. A ever so thin veil over the music, or between the music and me. This veil was much thinner than with most of the speakers/systems/rooms I've heard, but to my ears it was still there.

How was the source material passed through the system? IOW, assuming a digital source, was digital the actual feed to the Kiis?

 

[watchnerd]

How was the source material passed through the system? IOW, assuming a digital source, was digital the actual feed to the Kiis?

Do you think this matters much?

Do you think the A/D converters in the Kii Three are not transparent?

 

[Thomas savage]

There's quite a lot of research which shows that people usually end up believing the things that they have a rational interest in advancing. Rich people often believe for example, deeply and honestly, that everybody will be better off in the end if taxes are low and social benefits are scrapped. And it just so happens that this exact policy is in line with their own economic self-interest. Not hypocrisy or something like that, just rationalization and cognitive dissonance.

We just can't help ourselves then..

 

[oivavoi]

How was the source material passed through the system? IOW, assuming a digital source, was digital the actual feed to the Kiis?

The source was the DAC HD20 from Hegel. I agree with Watchnerd though. I doubt this had a large effect on my listening impressions. I would assume that my impressions can be explained by one of three factors (which are not mutually exclusive):
1) Human error (maybe white plasticky things just sound worse to me than nice wooden boxes? who knows)
2) Something in the speaker - drivers, eq, box construction
3) Something in the speaker-room interaction

 

[fas42]

The source was the DAC HD20 from Hegel. I agree with Watchnerd though. I doubt this had a large effect on my listnening impressions. I would assume that my impressions can be explained by one of three factors (which are not mutually exclusive):
1) Human error (maybe white plasticky things just sound worse to me than nice wooden boxes? who knows)
2) Something in the speaker - drivers, eq, box construction
3) Something in the speaker-room interaction

Hmmm ... so the source was digital converted to analogue in the Hegel, then converted back to digital in the Kii, DSP'd and finally DAC'd to analogue to feed the speakers - a very direct route ...

Personally, I've noted in various videos around the place, good and poor sound from the Kiis - seemingly differentiated by the path taken by the signal.