Starting with turntables

[Robin L]

Well, I don't. "As faithfully as it can be" is a never achievable goal, a recipe for OCD aquisitions chasing imaginary audio gremlins, an endless trek on the hedonic treadmill.

My goal is to enjoy listening to music. I want reproduction faithful enough to absorb me into the music, and without flaws so annoying that I listen to the sound instead. My inexpensive AT turntable gets me there (after the microline stylus solved the inner track distortion).

While I only listen to CDs these days - space limitations mostly, if you want to know - a lot of what I listen to is at least 60 years old, some considerably older than that. There's no hope of truly accurate reproduction with recordings like that.

 

[recycle]

It is interesting to note that younger people are very intrigued by vinyl, while boomers generally hate it and never miss an opportunity to point out its weak points. glorifying digital instead. According to logic, it should be the opposite, I don't understand: please someone explain

 

[Zapper]

While I only listen to CDs these days - space limitations mostly, if you want to know - a lot of what I listen to is at least 60 years old, some considerably older than that. There's no hope of truly accurate reproduction with recordings like that.

Definitely. There's often no mistaking a recording that old with a new production, whether on CD, LP, or streaming.

 

[Zapper]

It is interesting to note that younger people are very intrigued by vinyl, while boomers generally hate it and never miss an opportunity to point out its weak points. glorifying digital instead. According to logic, it should be the opposite, I don't understand: please someone explain

Is that true though? There are many Boomer LP fans, and most young people can't be bothered with LPs.

The ASR crowd tends to favor technical perfection, so understandably there are some who disparage LPs for not having 100db SINAD.

 

[Angsty]

It is interesting to note that younger people are very intrigued by vinyl, while boomers generally hate it and never miss an opportunity to point out its weak points. glorifying digital instead. According to logic, it should be the opposite, I don't understand: please someone explain

Older folks have had the opportunity to have more negative impressions of vinyl, as it was the predominant form of reproduction for many decades.

Those are valid. However, it’s different to pan the idea that anyone could enjoy vinyl for what it is without having to constantly compare it to digital.

At some point, the “informing” about the deficiencies of vinyl to the point of discouragement simply becomes rude. It becomes a substitution of the question the person asked with the question one prefers to answer.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

It is interesting to note that younger people are very intrigued by vinyl, while boomers generally hate it and never miss an opportunity to point out its weak points. glorifying digital instead. According to logic, it should be the opposite, I don't understand: please someone explain

Dead simple. Young people must always disagree with previous generations.
Didn't you?

 

[MattHooper]

It is interesting to note that younger people are very intrigued by vinyl, while boomers generally hate it and never miss an opportunity to point out its weak points. glorifying digital instead. According to logic, it should be the opposite, I don't understand: please someone explain

Yup.

I've paid attention to tons of conversations about vinyl, including the comment sections on the countless articles on the vinyl revival. It is almost ALWAYS a boomer or someone older who grew up with records, disparaging the medium and mocking the idea "We finally got rid of all those ticks and pops and all the stuff we had to do taking care of records...and now we have easier access to music in more accurate digital form. Why the hell would anyone want to go back to records?"

It really is a case of "dad not understanding."

(And one of the explanations is just context: The boomer had the experience of using records, and in comparison finds digital to be more desirable. But many young people only had the digital experience, and then found that vinyl and turntables offered aspects of collecting and experiencing music that digital wasn't offering. So in their context they are discovering something new, in contrast to their otherwise digital lives).

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Yup.

I've paid attention to tons of conversations about vinyl, including the comment sections on the countless articles on the vinyl revival. It is almost ALWAYS a boomer or someone older who grew up with records, disparaging the medium and mocking the idea "We finally got rid of all those ticks and pops and all the stuff we had to do taking care of records...and now we have easier access to music in more accurate digital form. Why the hell would anyone want to go back to records?"

It really is a case of "dad not understanding."

(And one of the explanations is just context: The boomer had the experience of using records, and in comparison finds digital to be more desirable. But many young people only had the digital experience, and then found that vinyl and turntables offered aspects of collecting and experiencing music that digital wasn't offering. So in their context they are discovering something new, in contrast to their otherwise digital lives).

Frankly , Matt, what is the point of your post

 

[DMill]

I was doing a bit of last minute shopping today at Target and noticed quite a few young people (less than 25) rummaging through LPs. Mostly Taylor Swift, but a few looking at Marvin Gaye, the Stones, Queen, etc. it kinda made my day. I no longer spin vinyl, but I may change my mind on that. Anything so visceral that inspires young people to discover music can’t be all bad.

One other point. I did notice a well preserved copy of Nirvanas Bleach selling for north of $4,000 on the internet. So if you’re looking for collectibles, LPs might sound a lot better based on that.

 

[Leporello]

I don’t see people going to the beer thread to exhort the superiority of wine or how water is purer and more healthy. And when someone asks for a beer recommendation, we don’t respond with our preferred bourbon.

Quite, but those are very different scenarios. The drinks you mentioned are works of art while various sound reproduction methods are not.

 

[Salt]

It is interesting to note that younger people are very intrigued by vinyl, while boomers generally hate it and never miss an opportunity to point out its weak points. glorifying digital instead. According to logic, it should be the opposite, I don't understand: please someone explain

I 've started Hifi with turntable, receiver and speakers, as most of us in 70'th, not?
Clicks and pops where usual, but the music was what mattered.
Then, in 80'th, CD and players were available, with the promise of no clicks and pops and uninterrupted 70 minutes of music, made me buy the first CD-Player that was cheaper than 500 DM (a Phillips, if I remember correctly), and my first CD (Sting's first solo album at 20 DM, corresponding today's 30-40 €).
Since them I rolled all equipment every some 2 or 3 year, and intermediatly, ten years ago or so, there was a chance to buy a professional TT that I never could have afforded in 80's (price then was around 11.000 DM, now €1.800).
Spent some money for professional updating and refurbishing the EMT938 and Tondose TSD15, and additionally invested into a dishkwasher.

The main difference to digital: vinyl provides more distortions that, in some moods, are more relaxing than digital clarity. And vinyl needs to be cared about it (Tamagotchi-effect?).


Long excurse, short answer: analogue = manual = everyone can understand (literally: es begreifen)

Besides, it's said, actors are paid best for vinyl release and least by streaming platforms, so I like the idea to support the actor by buying vinyl, even if I would only listen to bypacked CD.

 

[Leporello]

I was doing a bit of last minute shopping today at Target and noticed quite a few young people (less than 25) rummaging through LPs. Mostly Taylor Swift, but a few looking at Marvin Gaye, the Stones, Queen, etc. it kinda made my day. I no longer spin vinyl, but I may change my mind on that. Anything so visceral that inspires young people to discover music can’t be all bad

Meanwhile millions of young people have discovered those artists via streaming services. To me it seems that vinyl has no special ability to make young people to discover music.

 

[olieb]

It is interesting to note that younger people are very intrigued by vinyl, while boomers generally hate it and never miss an opportunity to point out its weak points. glorifying digital instead. According to logic, it should be the opposite, I don't understand: please someone explain

I can assist that with some anecdotal confirmation.
Three of four of my siblings kids will own a turntable from tomorrow on. The forth is not so much into music, she is more involved with science so far ;-)
The reasons are divers though.
One niece likes polaroids, indie music and took over my first turntable I gave to my sister decades ago.
The other niece is an artsy, retro person interested in all kinds of old stuff. I gifted my later turntable to her some years ago.
My nephew is into electronic music and interested in putting on records. One reason for vinyl is the idea of listening in a different way, more involved with the music instead of skipping through lists of short songs generated by algorythms.
As a common ground I would say it is a way to differentiate themselves somehow, exploring individualism.
I do not care for vinyl since CDs became affordable. I was more than happy to leave pop, crackle, rustle and rumble behind together with wow and flutter and all sorts of things that distract me from the music. I feel plenty individual with my choice of preferred music. I always have been amazed by the mechanical and electrodynamics technology of LP reproduction. But as a science guy.

 

[Angsty]

Discussion is about a first turntable. Therefor getting into vinyl. It's not a wise thing to do by the way. But, if you're gonna do it, you'll need a vacuum record cleaning machine.

For newbies, a $500 RCM as an ante to get into vinyl could be discouraging. There are less expensive ways to keep vinyl clean:

1. Spray cleaner and paper towels. This is what I did when I first started. Method spray is my preferred, easily obtainable cleaner, diluted 1:10 with distilled water - straight Method is too concentrated for record cleaning. I used lots of paper towels, but it works when you have only a few records and more time than money.

2. A Spin-Clean. This is a small trough that allows you to hand turn records through a water bath and affixed cleaning pads. $75 on Amazon. You still need to rinse the records with distilled water and dry
them. Better than cleaning method #1 for larger collections, but does require using a cleaning fluid containing a flocculant to get the best results - such as the Spin Clean concentrate.

3. A Record Doctor RCM. This is a vacuum record cleaning machine where you turn the record yourself instead of letting a motor do it. It’s about $300 on Amazon now, so it’s a bigger commitment. I had one of these and it works pretty well if you don’t turn the record too quickly. Fortunately, you do not need to vacuum clean a record before each playing - one cleaning can be enough if stored properly.

At $500+, I’d recommend looking at a Humminguru ultrasonic cleaner. That’s well outside of “newbie” territory if you ask me. I have one and enjoy using it - it gets better results than the Record Doctor.

Like the OP, I started with an inherited record collect and no turntable. I liked the experience, so I kept going. Ten years later, I’m happy to buy all formats to enjoy music.

 

[oceansize]

Meanwhile millions of young people have discovered those artists via streaming services. To me it seems that vinyl has no special ability to make young people to discover music.

Of course not. It's about caring for the music - and actually owning a physical copy of that music is important. Part of the vinyl thing for those that weren't there first time 'round is that physical connection and having to be careful and look after that imperfect medium.

 

[MattHooper]

Frankly , Matt, what is the point of your post

Other people clearly understand. I'd re-explain it, but I prefer to have conversations, rather than just eliciting replies of "I disagree."

 

[MattHooper]

Meanwhile millions of young people have discovered those artists via streaming services. To me it seems that vinyl has no special ability to make young people to discover music.

There is no "special ability" to discover new music in some vague, generalized sense.

But getting in to vinyl has caused plenty of people to discover music they otherwise wouldn't have discovered. That's just the way contingency works.

My wife has no "special ability" in causing me to "discover new things" but I have certainly had experiences and gained interests I wouldn't have had with someone else.

Likewise, with vinyl, I know I've got plenty of music in my collection that I discovered going down specific vinyl rabbit holes, vs what I tended to encounter on streaming.
I also came to be more familiar with the music in my record collection, played it more, than the tracks and artists I discovered surfing music digitally. That's because vinyl forced me to be more reflective and curate my collection in ways that endlessly flicking through streaming options on my phone and pressing "favourite" never achieved.

 

[JP]

For newbies, a $500 RCM as an ante to get into vinyl could be discouraging. There are less expensive ways to keep vinyl clean:

1. Spray cleaner and paper towels. This is what I did when I first started. Method spray is my preferred, easily obtainable cleaner, diluted 1:10 with distilled water - straight Method is too concentrated for record cleaning. I used lots of paper towels, but it works when you have only a few records and more time than money.

2. A Spin-Clean. This is a small trough that allows you to hand turn records through a water bath and affixed cleaning pads. $75 on Amazon. You still need to rinse the records with distilled water and dry
them. Better than cleaning method #1 for larger collections, but does require using a cleaning fluid containing a flocculant to get the best results - such as the Spin Clean concentrate.

3. A Record Doctor RCM. This is a vacuum record cleaning machine where you turn the record yourself instead of letting a motor do it. It’s about $300 on Amazon now, so it’s a bigger commitment. I had one of these and it works pretty well if you don’t turn the record too quickly. Fortunately, you do not need to vacuum clean a record before each playing - once can actually be enough if stored properly.

At $500+, I’d recommend looking at a Humminguru ultrasonic cleaner. That’s well outside of “newbie” territory if you ask me. I have one and enjoy using it - it gets better results than the Record Doctor.

Like the OP, I started with an inherited record collect and no turntable. I liked the experience, so I kept going. Ten years later, I’m happy to buy all formats to enjoy music.

Pretty good manual process here. Can adapt too.

 

[Zapper]

Yup.

I've paid attention to tons of conversations about vinyl, including the comment sections on the countless articles on the vinyl revival. It is almost ALWAYS a boomer or someone older who grew up with records, disparaging the medium and mocking the idea "We finally got rid of all those ticks and pops and all the stuff we had to do taking care of records...and now we have easier access to music in more accurate digital form. Why the hell would anyone want to go back to records?"

It really is a case of "dad not understanding."

(And one of the explanations is just context: The boomer had the experience of using records, and in comparison finds digital to be more desirable. But many young people only had the digital experience, and then found that vinyl and turntables offered aspects of collecting and experiencing music that digital wasn't offering. So in their context they are discovering something new, in contrast to their otherwise digital lives).

Here's my anecdote: I am a Boomer dad with three Zoomer sons. I listen to records. None of my sons do. None even own hifi other than small BT speakers. They are content streaming into their ear buds.

 

[MattHooper]

Here's my anecdote: I am a Boomer dad with three Zoomer sons. I listen to records. None of my sons do. None even own hifi other than small BT speakers. They are content streaming into their ear buds.

Indeed. People are different and not everyone does the same things. Also, you won't find the reasons for a trend by looking to those not involved in the trend: you have to ask people who are enthusiasts why are are in to vinyl. And a common set of reasons often comes back about how the physical characteristics of vinyl impact their experience of owning and listening to music, in a way that digital streaming does not...for those people.