Why do you think a few members have an 'alcoholic anonymous' vibe towards the audiophile community? It seems a harmless hobby as far as things go?

[FrantzM]

The automatic right to return for a full refund only applies to goods bought on-line. For goods bought in a physical shop, there is a 30 day right to return for refund only if the goods are faulty. Otherwise, it's down to the individual shop's returns policy. Outside the 30 day return for faulty goods, the shop has the obligation to repair or replace at their choice, but not to refund.

In Europe, the warranty responsibility rests with the supplier, i.e. the shop or on-line retailer, NOT the manufacturer. Shops sometimes try it on and say that the manufactuer is responsible. The only exception is where the supplier is only acting as an agent for the manufacturer, and the legal transaction is between manufacturer and end-purchaser. Typically new cars are sold in this way.

S

Haven't read the entire thing and I don't know anything about those laws. I can retort however that the HEA has found one, again, magical way to circumvent those pesky regulations/laws: Break-in....

By the time the audiophile has broken-in his components ...

This tidbit was copied from the Nordost website. Emphasis is mine...

, to mods ( if inappropriate, please remove)

​

​

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS​

ALL
GENERAL
LENGTH
SET UP
DIRECTIONALITY
BREAK IN
TECHNOLOGY
TERMINATION
CLEANING AND MAINTENANCE
HIGH DEFINITION
SORT SYSTEMS
QRT

BREAK IN​

+
How long do my cables have to break in?
Normally, we recommend at least 168 hours. However, our Reference level cables require at least 336 hours.
+
What is the best way to break in my cables?
The best way to break in your cables is to have them burned in on the Nordost VIDAR machine by an Authorized Dealer. Most dealers will do this for a small charge and many offer this service when you buy your cables from them. This is another reason to buy your cable from an Authorized Nordost Dealer.
+
Can I have my cables burned in at the Nordost factory?
No, we don’t offer this service at our factory due to the volume of work and the logistics involved.
+
What happens during break in?
Considerable changes occur in the cable during the break in process. Any gases that were trapped between the insulation and the conductors during manufacturing are dissipated. Additionally, the insulation material charges up. The diode effects of the conductor will be more pronounced after 168 hours of break in. During this time the cable takes on a direction.
+
How long does break in last?
If the cable has not been used for more than one month, it will benefit from being broken in on the VIDAR. It is a good idea to bring your cables back to your local dealer every year and have them broken in again.
+
Why is the VIDAR better for breaking in cables?
The VIDAR is designed to put a very wide band signal of varying amplitude through the cables connected to it. In the normal course of use, cables such as tone arm and analog interconnects never get a high level of signal. This means it can take a long time for them to break in fully. The VIDAR speeds up this process by the combination of frequencies it puts through the cable. The results from the VIDAR will always be better than any other break- in method used.
Cables such as tonearms and analog interconnects are normally never exposed to high signal levels, so it takes an extra long time for them to break in. When a cable is connected to the VIDAR it is subjected to a wide band signal of varying amplitude. The combination of frequencies put through the cable speed up the break in process. Results from the VIDAR will always be better than any other break in method used.

......

YEP They wrote that...


Peace.

 

[ahofer]

Haven't read the entire thing and I don't know anything about those laws. I can retort however that the HEA has found one, again, magical way to circumvent those pesky regulations/laws: Break-in....

By the time the audiophile has broken-in his components ...

This tidbit was copied from the Nordost website. Emphasis is mine...

, to mods ( if inappropriate, please remove)

​

​

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS​

ALL
GENERAL
LENGTH
SET UP
DIRECTIONALITY
BREAK IN
TECHNOLOGY
TERMINATION
CLEANING AND MAINTENANCE
HIGH DEFINITION
SORT SYSTEMS
QRT

BREAK IN​

+
How long do my cables have to break in?
Normally, we recommend at least 168 hours. However, our Reference level cables require at least 336 hours.
+
What is the best way to break in my cables?
The best way to break in your cables is to have them burned in on the Nordost VIDAR machine by an Authorized Dealer. Most dealers will do this for a small charge and many offer this service when you buy your cables from them. This is another reason to buy your cable from an Authorized Nordost Dealer.
+
Can I have my cables burned in at the Nordost factory?
No, we don’t offer this service at our factory due to the volume of work and the logistics involved.
+
What happens during break in?
Considerable changes occur in the cable during the break in process. Any gases that were trapped between the insulation and the conductors during manufacturing are dissipated. Additionally, the insulation material charges up. The diode effects of the conductor will be more pronounced after 168 hours of break in. During this time the cable takes on a direction.
+
How long does break in last?
If the cable has not been used for more than one month, it will benefit from being broken in on the VIDAR. It is a good idea to bring your cables back to your local dealer every year and have them broken in again.
+
Why is the VIDAR better for breaking in cables?
The VIDAR is designed to put a very wide band signal of varying amplitude through the cables connected to it. In the normal course of use, cables such as tone arm and analog interconnects never get a high level of signal. This means it can take a long time for them to break in fully. The VIDAR speeds up this process by the combination of frequencies it puts through the cable. The results from the VIDAR will always be better than any other break- in method used.
Cables such as tonearms and analog interconnects are normally never exposed to high signal levels, so it takes an extra long time for them to break in. When a cable is connected to the VIDAR it is subjected to a wide band signal of varying amplitude. The combination of frequencies put through the cable speed up the break in process. Results from the VIDAR will always be better than any other break in method used.

......

YEP They wrote that...


Peace.

Reprehensible

 

[Galliardist]

With cell phone screens becoming so ubiquitous, the watch becomes more ornament than necessity.

There are a lot of activities where you just can’t check the time on a phone, where a wristwatch is indeed a useful tool.

And while we’re at it, don’t underestimate the value of ornament as a statement of who you are. The wristwatch is one of the few ornaments we allow men (other than rappers and hipsters) these days.

 

[Victor Martell]

Most of us here. But you only need to look at all the other subjective forums to find that most of the rest of the world are fully taken in by the bogus claims.

100% true.
But that is not what this thread is about. What we are dancing around here is that to the rest of the world, we are in the same bag. To them there is no difference between Audiogon and ASR. Why? Because to the rest of the world even what we do scientifically is too much Because to the rest of the world anything beyond an iPhone and Airpods is just silly.

 

[egellings]

There are a lot of activities where you just can’t check the time on a phone, where a wristwatch is indeed a useful tool.

And while we’re at it, don’t underestimate the value of ornament as a statement of who you are. The wristwatch is one of the few ornaments we allow men (other than rappers and hipsters) these days.

True. The watch is quick & compact and easily accessible when worn. Thing is, it could be inaccurate if it winds down, if mechanical, losing the correct time. A phone will always have it right.

 

[Vacceo]

To me watches are a necessity. In my classrooma there is no clock and cell phones are not allowed for students. Out of example and respect, I keep my cell phone away, so the watch actually serves a purpose during exams.

I have used a Hamilton since I was a little kid. I got it from my godfather and decades after, it's still on my wrist.

 

[FrantzM]

100% true.
But that is not what this thread is about. What we are dancing around here is that to the rest of the world, we are in the same bag. To them there is no difference between Audiogon and ASR. Why? Because to the rest of the world even what we do scientifically is too much Because to the rest of the world anything beyond an iPhone and Airpods is just silly.

Thing is , we are coming to this point where iPhone and Airpods, thanks to Science, which we espouse here, are perhaps all one need for superior performance.. those are getting pretty good, in some cases superior in all aspects to those silly items the HEA espouse... e.g the $9.95 Apple dongle that performs as well or better than a $15,000.oo HEA DAC, that was reviewed here. Let's not forget those IEM, routinely manufactured by China, Inc., hovering around $15 to $60.oo that are excellent , some spectacular... and better, Yes!, than many of their HEA counterparts costing, <gasp>40 (yes, forty) times more... For myself my mobile system consists of my iPhone + Apple dongle + TCZ Blue and, it is reference-quality sound and the entire thing minus the iPhone cost $60.oo !!!!!! .. And it is portable and ...

Science is leading that charge, yes, those high performance and high quality items came up because Science was used during their inception, design and manufacture. It annoys me to no end that the HEA has taken this perverse course of providing BS, rather than performance.


Peace.

 

[egellings]

I never had much of an 'audiophile' period. I started as a teen from a a pair of EPI 100s (recommended as a budget pick) and then a Bose 901 phase in the late 1970s. I thought Bose was pretty fancy stuff, and in some ways, it was -- but was naturally inclined to science and measured performance and how this thing called 'psychoacoustics' was being leveraged in the hobby. My next speakers were NHTs, when Ken Kantor was running the place. Meanwhile I was training academically in science. I was reading Stereo Review and Audio Critic and $ensible $ound and laughing at the utter nonsense in TAS and Stereophile. I signed on as a member of hydrogenaudio in 2003; for many years it was the only pro-science, anti-subjectivist forum on the Internet. That's long enough ago to remember when Amir was a newbie there, and his epic pissing matches with Arny Kruger.

So there's no particular AA vibe in my ridicule of the 'audiophile' community; I never felt 'had' by it. I never lusted after tube amps or monoblocs or fancy cables. I mainly wished I could afford better speakers, a quiet room, and wished LPs sounded better (digital saved the day on that one). I've found the audio hobby riven with patently ridiculous subjectivist garble and anti-science snake-oil almost from the start of my participation in it.

From that vantage I know that we are in much better place as an audio hobbyists today than we were even just 20 years ago. The 'objectivist' stance has made enormous headway (thanks to the Internet, really). The old paradigm of the hobby is on the defensive.

Ridicule sure can cross to contempt when the target is people who should, and I suspect do, know better. But don't cry for subjectivists and anti-science ankle-biters being 'bashed', or worry too much about a tenor of 'righteousness of the converted' at ASR. A zombie can never be truly killed; that's what makes it a zombie. Short of a hydrogenaudio-level ban on subjectivist mysticism, zombie-defenders will continue to lurk even here on Audio Science Review. Alas.

They make good entertainment, though. You gits yer giggles if nothing else.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Don’t get me started!

If you are concerned with loud aftermarket pipes, those I have a problem with....

 

[Anton D]

Haven't read the entire thing and I don't know anything about those laws. I can retort however that the HEA has found one, again, magical way to circumvent those pesky regulations/laws: Break-in....

By the time the audiophile has broken-in his components ...

This tidbit was copied from the Nordost website. Emphasis is mine...

, to mods ( if inappropriate, please remove)

​

​

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS​

ALL
GENERAL
LENGTH
SET UP
DIRECTIONALITY
BREAK IN
TECHNOLOGY
TERMINATION
CLEANING AND MAINTENANCE
HIGH DEFINITION
SORT SYSTEMS
QRT

BREAK IN​

+
How long do my cables have to break in?
Normally, we recommend at least 168 hours. However, our Reference level cables require at least 336 hours.
+
What is the best way to break in my cables?
The best way to break in your cables is to have them burned in on the Nordost VIDAR machine by an Authorized Dealer. Most dealers will do this for a small charge and many offer this service when you buy your cables from them. This is another reason to buy your cable from an Authorized Nordost Dealer.
+
Can I have my cables burned in at the Nordost factory?
No, we don’t offer this service at our factory due to the volume of work and the logistics involved.
+
What happens during break in?
Considerable changes occur in the cable during the break in process. Any gases that were trapped between the insulation and the conductors during manufacturing are dissipated. Additionally, the insulation material charges up. The diode effects of the conductor will be more pronounced after 168 hours of break in. During this time the cable takes on a direction.
+
How long does break in last?
If the cable has not been used for more than one month, it will benefit from being broken in on the VIDAR. It is a good idea to bring your cables back to your local dealer every year and have them broken in again.
+
Why is the VIDAR better for breaking in cables?
The VIDAR is designed to put a very wide band signal of varying amplitude through the cables connected to it. In the normal course of use, cables such as tone arm and analog interconnects never get a high level of signal. This means it can take a long time for them to break in fully. The VIDAR speeds up this process by the combination of frequencies it puts through the cable. The results from the VIDAR will always be better than any other break- in method used.
Cables such as tonearms and analog interconnects are normally never exposed to high signal levels, so it takes an extra long time for them to break in. When a cable is connected to the VIDAR it is subjected to a wide band signal of varying amplitude. The combination of frequencies put through the cable speed up the break in process. Results from the VIDAR will always be better than any other break in method used.

......

YEP They wrote that...


Peace.

That's a very precise break in time.

How many hours until they start to break down and they recommend new ones?

"After 2,000 hours, the ultrafine crystalline structure of cables starts to be affected by entropy and we recommend replacement. We offer a 30% discount for replacing your entropy-crippled cables."

 

[Freeway]

I've noticed some of the more experienced members have an 'alcoholic anonymous' vibe towards the audiophile community they were formerly a part of. They talk about their former life as an audiophile in a bitter way like they escaped from a dangerous hobby.

Perhaps their life became unmanageable.
Perhaps they want to manage other people's lives

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Most of us here. But you only need to look at all the other subjective forums to find that most of the rest of the world are fully taken in by the bogus claims.

The average audiophile doesn't believe all the lunatic fringe claims. Go on the most popular audiophile sites like r/audiophile which has over 2 million audiophiles and like anyone with an elementary education they don't believe things like cables can make a difference to sound quality.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Thing is , we are coming to this point where iPhone, thanks to Science, which we espouse here, are perhaps all one need for superior performance.

DACs haven't sounded audibly different for 40 years now. Electronics are thanks to science, you need electricity for your components to run. Your electronics are built on the principles of electromagnetic theory. That is a given.

. those are getting pretty good, in some cases superior in all aspects to those silly items the HEA espouse... e.g the $9.95 Apple dongle that performs as well or better than a $15,000.oo HEA DAC, that was reviewed here. Let's not forget those IEM,

IEMs are worse than $50 speakers if the idea is realism for instrumental music. That's because of their common in ear design.

my iPhone + Apple dongle + TCZ Blue and, it is reference-quality sound and the entire thing minus the iPhone cost $60.oo !!!!!! .. And it is portable and ...

Reference quality for IEM. What you hear with IEM is not similar to hearing music live. That's right it's cheaper to be an audiophile than ever before. Wharfedale Diamond speakers only cost a couple hundred dollars. Just the average experiences of music most people are getting are declining. That's sociological, cultural, it won't be solved by science.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

100% true.
But that is not what this thread is about. What we are dancing around here is that to the rest of the world, we are in the same bag. To them there is no difference between Audiogon and ASR. Why? Because to the rest of the world even what we do scientifically is too much Because to the rest of the world anything beyond an iPhone and Airpods is just silly.

True too - but some of those comments you quoted were posted in the in the context of ASRers, specially ASRers looking down on those ASRers that like vinyl (see thread called "explain the vinyl renaissance" ), so who knows? context is important, as it is point of view and environment. Sure, we have the ASRers raining abuse and putting ASRers that like vinyl on the same bag as subjective audiophiles. BUT there has to be a situation where even the more science-y and truly qualified ASRer gets called out for not realizing that iPhone + Airpods is enough!

A lot of ASR members are incorrigible audiophiles who overrate the importance of sound quality. They believe vinyl sounds worse. They don't care that sound quality is only one part of the music listening experience not always the largest one.

 

[Victor Martell]

Thing is , we are coming to this point where iPhone and Airpods, thanks to Science, which we espouse here, are perhaps all one need for superior performance.. those are getting pretty good, in some cases superior in all aspects to those silly items the HEA espouse... e.g the $9.95 Apple dongle that performs as well or better than a $15,000.oo HEA DAC, that was reviewed here. Let's not forget those IEM, routinely manufactured by China, Inc., hovering around $15 to $60.oo that are excellent , some spectacular... and better, Yes!, than many of their HEA counterparts costing, <gasp>40 (yes, forty) times more... For myself my mobile system consists of my iPhone + Apple dongle + TCZ Blue and, it is reference-quality sound and the entire thing minus the iPhone cost $60.oo !!!!!! .. And it is portable and ...

Science is leading that charge, yes, those high performance and high quality items came up because Science was used during their inception, design and manufacture. It annoys me to no end that the HEA has taken this perverse course of providing BS, rather than performance.


Peace.

Pardon my ignorance - HEA? (the only one I know is "Happily Ever After")

That said, beyond that... I clicked "Reply" because you quoted me... but I am not sure I should... yes, maybe in a scientific experiment, all things being equal, we won't be able to distinguish Bluetooth audio from a phone from our stuff, even if we picked it rationally and not believing in audiophoolery. I want to think that I should be able to distinguish the Airpods Max from my headphone lineup, given, well, that logically transducers are more likely to have a distinguishable sound signature... but that said, I may not.

Many ways to look at this. I think the Airpods (Pro and Max) ARE WAY OVERPRICED. I have a set of Soundcore earbuds that I use for calls, and for when I need music in a non focused listening environment. That is, for example, when I am shopping with my wife and I get bored, I fire up some Spotify tunes with those puppies. They are fine.

But also, they MATCH AND EXCEED EVERY FEATURE AND SPEC OF THE AIRPODS PRO. For $50 - that is less than 1/3 of the price of the Airpods Pro. So even within the consumer space that thinks us crazy, there is silliness and phoolery.

 

[rdenney]

That is false. Go on the most popular audiophile sites like r/audiophile which has over 2 million members and like anyone with an elementary education they don't believe things like cables can make a difference to sound quality.

That simply was not the case before sites like ASR came along. Before joining ASR, I spent quite a bit of time on a well-known alternative forum more devoted to vintage equipment. Cable questions came up frequently, and the response was often a discussion of the varying qualitative effects of different choices. Did most people in that forum hold the most extreme positions? No. But it's as I described in one of my first posts in this thread--the fact that $XXXX cables are taken seriously in the serious audio press means that $XXX cables will seem like value propositions, when cables priced at $XX work perfectly. That's the reason some of these companies have those halo products, but really make their money on those "lower" lines. And when the magazines list the equipment in the system used for testing any given product, and the things like cables and power cords are 1.) expensive and 2.) even mentioned, it gives the impression that these are important without saying a word.

Example: From Stereophile's review of the Jadis Orchestra integrated amplifier:

"Cables: Digital: AudioQuest Carbon (USB). Interconnect: Audio Note AN-Vx, Luna Red, Shindo Laboratory. Speaker: Auditorium 23. AC: manufacturers' stock cords."

The USB cable is $180. I can find no Audio Note dealer that actually shows Audio Note cable for purchase, but the several that I did look at show their own house brand RCA cables. Gig Harbor their own has 3-foot RCA stereo pairs at $229. One other dealer didn't show cables but offered this on their "deals" page: "Pair Of PRIME Interconnects. Dealer Demo. One Meter. RCA. Very Detailed With Excellent Harmonic Color. Well Broken In Using The Nordost Vidar And By A Few Years Of Using Them In A Million Dollar Hifi System. New MSRP $12000, Asking $7000 Obo For The Pair." Luna Reds cost a couple of thousand bucks for a one-meter pair. The Shindo Laboratory interconnects with RCA plugs are priced at $1500. An 8-foot set of Auditorium 23 speaker cables are $1180 at Don Better Audio. We are into the many thousands of dollars for cables. Thank goodness they didn't feel the need to buy Shuniata power cords.

Those $120 Audioquest Golden Dragon (or whatever) cables at Best Buy now seem awfully cheap, don't they? After pitching a fit, the Magnolia sales guy rolled his eyes and pointed out on the floor where the Philistines shop: Best Buy Essentials 6' RCA Audio Cables, $6. "Well, if you don't care what your systems sound like..." (The Amazon Basics cables are are ten bucks but have better RCA plugs that don't loosen up after plugging them in half a dozen times. But they don't sound any better.)

And Blue Jeans 12-gauge speaker cables with banana plugs on both ends are 50 bucks each in 8-foot lengths. I can buy 100 feet of 12-gauge zip cord from Amazon for 30 bucks, and all my amps and speakers are perfectly happy clamping down onto bare wire. The BJC cables will at least have clean-looking connections. But for anyone who hasn't been mentally corrupted, the Blue Jeans cables should be the luxury solution.

McIntosh in the day fought this hard. Gordon Gow requested the construction of a comparison display, comparing 50-foot runs of the emerging special cable of the day from the company that first (monstrously) promulgated them with 50 feet of line cord. Roger Russell, who designed and built the system, found that the line cord had to be of sufficient gauge to keep the resistance below 10% of the lowest impedance of the speakers, but once that was accomplished, nobody could tell any difference. They took this test to audio shows where McIntosh used to have equipment clinics in addition to demonstrating their products. They finally discovered that the audiophile community was so committed to the notion that cables made a difference that the demonstration was hurting sales of equipment. They finally ended the demonstration and just advised their customers to work with their dealers to provide cabling. When the knowledge of the cable under test was removed, the ears were unable to make the distinction. So, why do the articles in the magazines feel it necessary to specifically mention the cables the system under test is using? What would happen if they simply said, "12-gauge lamp cord"? Their readers, who have already accepted the shibboleth that fancy cables make a difference, would reject the test. The notion that people aren't fooled just isn't so--the deception was total until the backlash against those beliefs one sees in places like ASR came along.

(Story here.)

When I was starting my audio journey, my closest friend was an audio repair technician (who eventually owned his own shop), a sound reinforcement system designer, and radio broadcast engineer (his degree was in electrical engineering technology). That association, even without my general scientific training otherwise, was sufficient to inoculate me from believing such hype. When special cables came along, it was fairly obvious that it was a money grab to my friend and I. For magazines, it was an opportunity to relitigate all the various discussions about quality all over again, given the held belief among experts at that time that the electronics were basically a solved problem after CD's became the dominant distribution medium. What's a magazine supposed to write about?

Rick "not underestimating the damage already done to the audio hobby" Denney

 

[rdenney]

A lot of ASR members are incorrigible audiophiles who overrate the importance of sound quality. They believe vinyl sounds worse. They don't care that sound quality is only one part of the music listening experience not always the largest one.

Dude, what forum are you reading? Yes, there are some who correctly believe that vinyl playback sounds worse. But few of them (yet they are vocal, to be sure) don't recognize that the vinyl playback experience is fun enough to override the difference in sound quality. And many of us like our vinyl and talk positively about it. But none of us are under any illusion that it sounds better.

So, when you say "a lot", I'm thinking of perhaps three ASR members who jump on every vinyl thread.

But what do you mean by overrating sound quality? Sound quality is what it is. It's either an accurate playback of the signals on the medium are it's not, and most of ASR is trying to determine what that accuracy is in any given case. It's not a matter of whether it's important to any given listening experience. But the purveyors of subjectivity don't say "sound quality isn't that important and some media provide a listening experience that is equally important." They say, "vinyl provides something the music needs to sound musical, and digital is unmusical by comparison." You just can't let that grand deception go without a fight.

Rick "who does actually read other audio forums" Denney

 

[rwortman]

As long as I have been enamored of good sound, there has been tension between measurement oriented and subjective listening oriented reviewers and purchasers of gear. Many on each side get some sense of superiority by ridiculing the other side. Finding extreme examples to ridicule is easy enough. Less so now on the measurements side as SS amplifiers that go crazy when connected to a real world load are pretty much gone.

I had a good friend who was an artist. I am an engineer. He sometimes simply refused to believe things that are established facts because they didn’t feel right to him. He wasn’t stupid or particularly gullible. He just saw the world differently. Accept the difference and move on.

Subjectivist audiophiles believe that there are unknowns involved in transmitting music from the recording to our brains. I doubt this but this is why they believe almost any tweak might make a difference.

I have some experience in live sound reinforcement and recording. I know for a fact that what you get on the recording is not exactly what your ears heard in the room. Microphones simply do not pick up everything. So we add stuff back in when mixing, trying to get close to that live sound. Now we play that recording in a different room with different speakers. If our goal is to try to make a recording sound like live music in our rooms and some folks think the added artifacts from turntables, tubes, etc sound closer to the live event to them, why argue? As to astronomical prices—whether the price reflects actual improvements in sound quality is an interesting argument to have. From my perspective some of it looks like a rip-off. However, there is a market that assigns value to these things. It’s not like that $50,000 amplifier becomes worthless after you buy it. It’s still worth what the next person is willing to pay.

 

[MattHooper]

DACs haven't sounded audibly different for 40 years now. Electronics are thanks to science, you need electricity for your components to run. Your electronics are built on the principles of electromagnetic theory. That is a given.

Well....

In the late 90's I was able to easily discern between two CD Players (Sony, Meridian) and an outboard DAC (Museatex Bidat), in level matched blind testing.

I consider digital sources a "solved" issue, so insofar as I purchase from a competent company devoted to accuracy, like Benchmark, then I don't expect to hear differences
among such DACs designed for accuracy. And I don't care to search for DACs that would sound different.

But...I think it's a bit of a stretch to at least imply all DACs have sounded indistinguishable for 40 years.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

A lot of ASR members are incorrigible audiophiles who overrate the importance of sound quality.

Please tell me .... how can one overrate the importance of sound quality when the name of the hobby is AUDIO? Did this hobby recently get a different name?

The average audiophile doesn't believe all the lunatic fringe claims.

The average audiophile doesn't believe all the lunatic fringe claims UNTIL THEY ARE PRESENTED TO THEM BY SALES PERSONNEL OR A REVIEWER. A skilled scammer reviewer can get people to believe just about anything they desire. People are malleable, and con artists know how to exploit them:

They believe vinyl sounds worse.

Yes. And they believe that water is wet and flies fly. Thank you, but I like my snap, crackle and pop in my cereal, not my music.

Jim