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The Science Delusion: has science become dogmatic?

Ron Texas

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@preload you are looking at the wrong graphic. I shouldn't need to do this and like @Cbdb2 it's not appropriate to drag up old posts. I live in Houston and can tell anyone without a doubt it's worse now than it was over the summer as the graphic clearly shows. Please do your homework before calling someone wrong. Your chart is epidemiologist investigations not infections.
 

BDWoody

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And in general... Can we dial back the antagonism?

If this thread becomes another troll attractor/generator, I'll just close it.

It isn't going to exist so people can trash the science or the people who are behind our current state of understanding.

If you just come here to challenge people inappropriately or disrespectfully, you won't be here long.
 

Robin L

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Main thing here, this is about the anti-science diatribe of Rupert Sheldrake. Thread drift has landed us here, but the bogosity of the OP is the real point of this thread.
 

j_j

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You keep down playing the preciseness, predictability, numerously-tested physical science and praise the history, effort etc of your area.
Unfortunately, this is not the fact. The fact is that all the published, accepted physical science results went through a much stricter validating process than AES papers.

You have, time and time again, offered no substance, yet now you accuse me of professional misconduct.

The rest of your unwarranted rant ignore a history of publications leading up to the particular "Harman Curve", which you also fail to note is for a very specific purpose that you fail to acknowledge.

There is no point in responding to your nonsense if you persist in ignoring what you've been cited, and instead accuse your opponent of professional misconduct.
 

j_j

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Main thing here, this is about the anti-science diatribe of Rupert Sheldrake. Thread drift has landed us here, but the bogosity of the OP is the real point of this thread.

Sorry, but "Science" and "Shelldrake" do not belong in the same sentence.
 

Robin L

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Inner Space

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Freedom of speech means that even hucksters have a right to huck.

Sadly correct. I don't like so-called "de-platforming" or any kind of suppression, but that said ... the Oxford Union is supposed to be a serious place, and kids have only a limited number of years in school (3 in the UK) so I wish the garbage was somehow excluded in favor of meaningful or illuminating talks that might have some lasting value.
 

BDWoody

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Freedom of speech means that even hucksters have a right to huck.

It gets hucked up pretty quickly at times.

Some really to need to get the huck out, or they'll get the huck kicked out of them.
 

SIY

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Freedom of speech, however, implies responsibility thereto.
When my stepson graduated high school, the speaker was a congressman.

All in all, I’d prefer Sheldrake. His hucksterism is less harmful to me.
 

tomtrp

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No, I do not misunderstand your point, nor am I willing to accept your rejection of psychoacosutics as a "social science". Please avoid this kind of dismissive language from now on, your comment is an attempt at dismissal in my view, no more.


Now that is stuff and nonsense. You had better believe, fully and completely, that for the cochlea (we'll stick to what's called the auditory periphery here) and the rest of the auditory mechanism there is a very deep, fundamental understanding the acoustics around the head, the ear canal, the middle ear, and how the cochlea does a time/frequency analysis of its input, and how it converts that input to partial loudnesses.

You are simply dismissing things that are quite well known. Obviously, there are arguments about this and that, but the basics of cochlear filtering, for instance, are not in doubt in the minds of current researchers.

In short, you claim that well-established knowledge does not exist. Please inform yourself. You may start here: https://www.aes-media.org/sections/pnw/pnwrecaps/2019/apr2019/

That being a one-hour introduction, no, not everything is discussed. It does, however, completely controvert your really insulting comments about the state of psychophysics and psychoacoustics.

That is unnecessarily dismissive as well, but in fact there is no such thing, ever, as a 'scientific fact'. All accepted theories are statistical inferences, based on the best known understanding. In this, psychoacoustics is no different.


As can we apply psychoacoustic results to the sound of speakers, the audibility of noise, the audibility of sounds, the loudness of sounds (remember, loudness is a technical term that is ***not*** the same as SPL or intensity).

There is no difference. The only missing thing is your knowledge of the state of research and science in the field.
The difference is how strong your inference is.
Why yes, the physical performance of a driver or system
You have, time and time again, offered no substance, yet now you accuse me of professional misconduct.

The rest of your unwarranted rant ignore a history of publications leading up to the particular "Harman Curve", which you also fail to note is for a very specific purpose that you fail to acknowledge.

There is no point in responding to your nonsense if you persist in ignoring what you've been cited, and instead accuse your opponent of professional misconduct.
Check out Harman's own notes and presentations before claiming Olive's research are carefully used for a very specific topic.
And, come on, I make no intent to accuse you anything about your professional conduct and I don't even know how you can read that from my replies.If you feel that way, I am sorry.
All I want to emphasis is the generalizability of the physco side of the field like Olive's headphone research needs to be carefully assessed before being acknowledged as scientific facts and promoted since the statistical inference is quite weak when you consider the small sample size, lack of randomness, limited confidence level and no cross validation from another group.

And you keep disqualifying me from discussion using things that is well known among the forums and things that I accept as well.But you avoided my doubts about the generalizibility of their research and just claiming everything I said as rant.
Did you really read the series of papers writted by Olive? I asked him on twitter and himself has a much better attitude towards limitations......
 

j_j

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The difference is how strong your inference is.


There's no point in continuing this, now that you've tried to change the subject from all of psychoacoustics having no physical basis, to the stated conditions for a particular paper.

You're moving the goalposts because you can't defend your original claim. The paper you're so upset about states its limits. It's that simple. That's how science works. You know, like "how much dark matter is there" or "what is the value of the Hubble constant".

Give it up. There is a great deal of physical evidence and examination in the auditory periphery, despite your claim.
 

CtheArgie

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I am not sure why the "physicist" keeps arguing about the superiority of his model of thinking. Part of my job is helping companies design, analyze and interpret clinical studies (within limited diseases, of course) and it is clear that medicine today does not work with the same level of precision as "physics" and still, decisions are made, drugs and vaccines get developed, diseases are better controlled.....
 

Wes

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the level of precision of "physics" differs widely, depending on the phenomena being investigated

maybe you mean engineering?
 
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