Spyware In Cars - It's Worse Than You Think

[phoenixdogfan]

Two nasty features are coming to "connected cars."
1. Remote kill switch
2. Monthly billing for features the car came with like $10/mo to use the seat heaters!

And the car will charge you for your own luggage.

 

[rkbates]

I would not be adverse to optional vehicle monitoring that gave me reduced premiums for sensible driving. That way I could opt in for the car and opt out for the motorbike

 

[Blumlein 88]

If a persons main driving safety issue is other people are driving too slow that might be a sign? To avoid aggressive driving, below are strategies offered by internet sources.

1. Practice Polite Driving Habits: Avoid tailgating, cutting off other vehicles, speeding, weaving, leaving high beam headlights on, and erratic braking. Merge politely and always err on the side of being courteous. Avoid using phone or texting while driving. Pay attention to the road.
2. Slow Down: Let aggressive drivers go around you and they will quickly be on their way.
3. Get Away from Aggressive Drivers: If you notice a driver with aggressive behavior, create distance between you by slowing down or changing lanes.
4. Don't Make Rude Gestures or Yell: Avoid engaging with aggressive drivers by making rude gestures or yelling. Avoid eye contact with an aggressive driver trying to provoke a reaction.
5. Use Your Horn Sparingly: Horns should primarily be used in emergency situations. Tap your horn lightly if needed to get a driver's attention.
6. Avoid Making Driving Competitive: Remember that driving is not a competition; focus on getting home safely rather than teaching other drivers a lesson.
7. Apologize if You've Made a Mistake: If you accidentally cut off another driver or make a mistake, smile and wave as an apology to disarm and calm most drivers. If you hit a parked car, leave your insurance and contact information.
8. Don't Drive Under Distress: Avoid driving if you're angry, upset, or drowsy to prevent reacting aggressively to other drivers' mistakes.
9. Adjust Your Driving Attitude: Give other drivers the benefit of the doubt and consider whether responding aggressively is worth the risk of injury or harm.
10. Have Reasonable Expectations About Travel Time: Plan your travel time wisely, give yourself plenty of time to reach your destination, and avoid setting unreasonable expectations for arrival time.
11. Call 911 if Under Attack: If confronted by an aggressive driver behaving violently, call 911 immediately and drive to a safe public location with witnesses.
12. If you took the time to read these suggestions and think they are proper etiquette, you're probably not an aggressive driver.

With that list in most cities you might as well just edit it to three suggestions.

1. Call an Uber or Taxi.
2. Employ a driver for all your travel on the highway.
3. Always travel by something other than private cars and lite trucks.

 

[somebodyelse]

2. Monthly billing for features the car came with like $10/mo to use the seat heaters!

BMW dropped that one - apparently feeling like you're being charged twice for the same thing doesn't go down very well. They still seem to be experimenting to find out where the edge of acceptance is though, and no doubt how fast you can move the edge without causing too much resistance.

 

[Ron Texas]

Last October I bought a 2019 Avalon from my local Toyota dealer. I was filing the paperwork and noticed a 1 page document about getting a 1 year "free" service for a vague stolen car program. After researching this company I discovered it is a tracking/monitoring service that relies on a DONGLE installed into my OBD system. I was shocked, as absolutely no mention was made on the document about any "device."

I raced over to the dealer and inquired with the Sales Manager. Yes, there is a cell phone based device in my car that goes on everytime you start the car. I demanded it be removed immediately and put in my hands. They were embarrased and rushed the car into the service department and removed it. It's rather large thing - see picture.

He said they put them in every car sold! They own five branded dealerships in my area.

View attachment 357355

Was this gadget OEM from Toyota or something the dealer added?

 

[TonyJZX]

i thought this was friggin' obvious

every car now wants carplay or android auto - they ARE phoning back to base... the ones who arent are already into telemetry ie. tesla and gm

you dont have to do this though - like on some cars i use a 2nd phone with a yearly plan that i do not use except as a spare (you can buy yearly plans here for like $100 and you get 100gb and unlimited calls sms etc.)

i usually drive a 10yr old Japanese SUV that only has keyless start and I declined to install their app lol

i'm usually driving around city with the other half so i dont even listen to music much any more

when i was a onsite eng. i would put on podcasts and music but i'm just not into ICE any more

if you can avoid it maybe drive and older car? I'm actually longing for the days of a steel car key you can copy for $10 rather than the $400 it costs for my keyless!

 

[somebodyelse]

For those that don't remember Mozilla's automotive privacy review last year, or somehow missed it:
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/b...rd-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/

 

[RayDunzl]

Yep, surveillance capitalism. The very reason Mark Zuckerberg is a multi-billionaire.

Oh yeah, I remember him!

He's in my Data Bank.

I let Google guide me around.

I wonder what it makes of days like this:

Driving?

Hiking?

Off-roading?

Flying!

 

[DesertRatt]

Was this gadget OEM from Toyota or something the dealer added?

Dealer added from a company in Salt Lake City.

 

[raindance]

Last October I bought a 2019 Avalon from my local Toyota dealer. I was filing the paperwork and noticed a 1 page document about getting a 1 year "free" service for a vague stolen car program. After researching this company I discovered it is a tracking/monitoring service that relies on a DONGLE installed into my OBD system. I was shocked, as absolutely no mention was made on the document about any "device."

I raced over to the dealer and inquired with the Sales Manager. Yes, there is a cell phone based device in my car that goes on everytime you start the car. I demanded it be removed immediately and put in my hands. They were embarrased and rushed the car into the service department and removed it. It's rather large thing - see picture.

He said they put them in every car sold! They own five branded dealerships in my area.

View attachment 357355

In South Africa you cannot insure your car without one of these systems because car theft is so high.

 

[FrantzM]

Where does it stop? Where

Personally, I don't mind having aggressive drivers paying a bit more. They can afford a new car and need to respect safe driving. Perhaps if this information becomes public they might be a little safer on the road?

I would like these companies to also record impact data along with GPS and report it to a national public database. There are so many hit and run accidents in parking lots and on the road it's crazy. Our car was hit twice simply going inside the pharmacy in one year. No note left - $1800-2500 in damages each time. There's a growing lack of moral accountability within segments of the US population.

So if I understand, it .. a surveillance state? A place where ("good"???) behavior is monitored and censured? Who would be watching those watchers?


Peace.

 

[Ron Texas]

Where does it stop? Where

So if I understand, it .. a surveillance state? A place where ("good"???) behavior is monitored and censured? Who would be watching those watchers?


Peace.

That's China with their social credit system.

 

[mhardy6647]

I would not be adverse to optional vehicle monitoring that gave me reduced premiums for sensible driving. That way I could opt in for the car and opt out for the motorbike

Such does exist (as I understand it). The problem (as I see it) is that the data analysis is probably algorithmic. Make a few sudden stops for deer crossing the road and you're an undisciplined driver.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Not something I'd want to discover empirically.

 

[mhardy6647]

Oh.
May I whine a little bit?

My Crosstrek had some sort of "phone home" system that costs $99 a year. Like OnStar, it is for all kinds of things. My only actual interaction with it was that I'd get an email whenever any idiot light illuminated on the car's instrument panel. E.g., cold morning tire pressure (TPMS) light would precipitate an email telling me what to do when the tire pressure light illuminated.

First year was free (of course) but they had cc information and it would auto-renew. They did send me emails to remind me it would renew if I didn't do anything, but I (of course) kept forgetting to cancel it for... I guess two cycles. Yes, totally my own fault - mea culpa.
Long story short, the specific cc info that was associated with it finally expired. They hounded me for updated cc info and I demurred. Got an email that the service had been cancelled. Logged onto the Subaru thingy website and confirmed: cancelled.
A little while later I got an email welcoming me to the service. Dug around a little and discovered they'd charged the (expired) cc.
How did they manage that -- and why did the cc company allow it?

Called them and they were happy enough (to their credit) to cancel the renewal and refund the money (less a few bucks' prorating).
A day or two later - predictably - I got an email that they couldn't refund the cost, because the credit card was expired.
Again, to their credit, they cut a check -- which they actually did send me and which actually was good.

I am sure the car's still snitching on me, though.

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[Count Arthur]

Oh yeah, I remember him!

He's in my Data Bank.

I let Google guide me around.

I wonder what it makes of days like this:

Driving?

View attachment 357562

Hiking?

Off-roading?

Flying!

View attachment 357569

There's a trend of using Strava to draw images on maps with your route tracking:

strav.art

GPS art made by you. The Keeper of the Art. The nichest collection of art in the world! Submit your Strava Art here! #stravaart #stravart

www.strav.art

 

[MAB]

Such does exist (as I understand it). The problem (as I see it) is that the data analysis is probably algorithmic. Make a few sudden stops for deer crossing the road and you're an undisciplined driver.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Not something I'd want to discover empirically.

My mom signed up for monitored rate-reduction from her insurance provider.
She routinely got reports that she hit the brakes hard at times when the car was clearly not being driven (like 2AM). So either the data or algorithm are corruptible and fragile.
The insurance representative had the audacity to suggest maybe she was 'sleep-driving'. After hearing this I asked my mom to go to the garage to see if the car had been stolen, since theft is real and AFAIK sleep-driving isn't realistic.

 

[DesertRatt]

The Internet is the most evil, diabolical invention in human history. It's not even possible to imagine a life in the developed world without soul killing surveillance. The human species has lost all remembrance of animal freedom.

 

[MRC01]

70% of drivers in the US believe they have above average driving skill. I don't know about the rest of the country, but in urban and rural California areas that I have been, it is closer to 10% and getting worse every year.
And yes, I am an excellent driver, top 5% easy.

You do realize that mathematically, this is possible? The average is not the median. But based on my driving experience I believe it is unlikely.

I keep my cars for a long time, so none of them have any of this newfangled spy-ware. If I eventually have to replace them, which is unlikely since I maintain them well, I'm going to go vintage instead of new. I like cars that I drive, not cars that drive me.

 

[AdrianusG]

There's a saying "those who give up freedom for safety will eventually have neither. Substitute privacy for freedom.

Yes indeed, all this data mining is for our own good , what could possibly go wrong

 

[FrantzM]

There's a saying "those who give up freedom for safety will eventually have neither. Substitute privacy for freedom.

Yes indeed, all this data mining is for our own good , what could possibly go wrong

I agree with those posts.

The equivalent of the Wild West when it comes to Big Tech and its impact on society. We cannot sidestep the issues as being inconvenient or, "too complicated to bother". This has the potential to derail democracy, to disturb our lives in ways worthy of the most dystopian scenarios.
Innocuous in the beginning, just a casual glance and use and ... it is growing and will metastases.

Democracy, freedom (not the same thing by the way...) are worth fighting for. They require vigilance. Lest you find yourself without any...

This is getting political and too close to home .. literally...

I'm out


Peace.