Snake Oil Department, Top This

[Galliardist]

Clamps/weights can flatten warped records. Warping is audible. Weights can also add inertia, and reduce wow/flutter. Not sure if that impact is audible though.

Of course, a $6000 device can't do any of those things better than a $60 device of similar weight.

Objective measurements are tricky because test tone records are rare, fragile and incredibly expensive.

Thanks for the response, but it leaves me uncertain.
Have you ever actually seen a clamp at the centre of a disc, properly flatten a warp at the rim? I spent some time looking at this, and while a warp through the middle of the disc (most common in my experience) can sometimes be reduced a little, the effect was overstated as I saw it.
As for wow/flutter, a weight at the middle of the disc reduces the flywheel effect, which should reduce inertia and increase wow.

A lot of the claims for weights and mats are made around reducing resonances in the disc, and I've yet to see real evidence for that either.

I haven't had a turntable for nearly 20 years now, so won't be researching this myself any time soon.

 

[antcollinet]

A mass added, wherever it is, will only increase inertia. It just won't increase it as much as if it was around the edge of the turntable. (It doesn't reduce the flywheel effect, it just doesn't increase it as much) However as I stated, audibility of the impact is debatable.

 

[egellings]

If the warp of a disk is enough to cause tracking problems, then I see how anything mitigating that would help & be audible. Otherwise, I see no sonic advantage to using a clamp.

 

[pinpoint_oxford]

Of course, a $6000 [record clamp] can't do any of those things better than a $60 device of similar weight.

I've a good friend that works for a steel company and regularly has scrap brass tubing available to her. I've worked with her to make a few record weights for friends and such and have thought about selling them for a price that better reflects the cost of materials than some fake quantum nonsense.

 

[Mnyb]

As said before the weight of some clamps change the mechanical parameters of the suspension. If it substantial enough it’s probably not a good change . So if the record is not warped don’t put on a heavy record clamp

 

[sergeauckland]

Added mass will also increase both main bearing wear and rumble, so if longevity is important, especially with a valuable vintage turntable like a Garrard 301/401 or Thorens TD124, it's best not to use a heavy clamp.

For fast-start direct drive turntables like mine, any increase in inertia will screw-up the servo function, so possibly make W&F worse, so again a heavy clamp is to be avoided.

Considering that a clamp, heavy or otherwise will do nothing for a warped record, although it might for a dished record on one side, they do seem rather pointless.

S.

 

[Count Arthur]

How hot does vinyl have to be to soften?

I wonder if you could use something like a steam shirt press to flatten a badly warped LP.

Ideally, you would need something to heat the LP enough to soften the vinyl, then allow it to cool again while being held flat.

It might work; anyone want to try?

 

[Martin]

How hot does vinyl have to be to soften?

I wonder if you could use something like a steam shirt press to flatten a badly warped LP.

View attachment 183857
Ideally, you would need something to heat the LP enough to soften the vinyl, then allow it to cool again while being held flat.

It might work; anyone want to try?

Furutech makes the DF-2 disk flattener. https://www.musicdirect.com/analog-accessories/furutech-df-2-lp-disc-flattener. At $3100 it may be considered snake oil. I’ve read a number of posts in other forums of people putting warped records in the oven at 175° F between two sheets of glass then taking them out and piling books on them for several hours. I don’t see why that shirt press might not work.

Martin

 

[mansr]

How hot does vinyl have to be to soften?

I wonder if you could use something like a steam shirt press to flatten a badly warped LP.

View attachment 183857
Ideally, you would need something to heat the LP enough to soften the vinyl, then allow it to cool again while being held flat.

It might work; anyone want to try?

I'd worry about the heat damaging the music grooves.

 

[Count Arthur]

Furutech makes the DF-2 disk flattener. https://www.musicdirect.com/analog-accessories/furutech-df-2-lp-disc-flattener.

So I'm not nuts then.

Fortunately, none of my discs are warped and I don't have trouble with rumble, wow or flutter.

 

[Spkrdctr]

The magnet that came with mine was too weak to hold the CD securely. I bought pucks from a later model that had stronger magnets, and in anticipation of losing one, bought three. Then, a month later, the damn unit failed or I broke it chasing a problem in the system. It's still sitting here with the lid off while I get motivated to put it on the scope to find the issue.

Rick "it's all cheapie Philips, Sony, or Sanyo crap under the skin, with few exceptions, for stuff built in the last couple of decades" Denney

That is the truth. When people talk about quality components I cringe. Everyone is using pretty much the same stuff, usually (but not always) Chinese made. I think our current repair techs on this site can confirm its is all cheap SMD boards (that work) and nothing really different from everyone else. The design is where engineers can use a bit of the magic skills to make things happen. But for the average guy on the street, they would be shocked that a $1000 pre-amp has the same components as a $4000 one. Maybe even amazed and feel ripped off.

 

[Spkrdctr]

View attachment 183718

At least it has a 12month warranty

A+ for using the word Quantum in the ad. Now that is what real Quantum abuse looks like!

 

[Spkrdctr]

Has anyone ever blind tested or measured audible differences with mats and clamps on turntables? Is the whole thing just another suburb of Snake Oil City?

In answer to your question Yes, it is snake oil. But, very high quality snake oil!

 

[Gregm]

Has anyone ever blind tested or measured audible differences with mats and clamps on turntables? Is the whole thing just another suburb of Snake Oil City?

Yes, mats. I tried a number of different mats and ultimately, it panned out, I preferred the manufacturer's solution: no mat. But they were diy affairs, cork, a rubber composite from another TT, a sort of silicon-ish matl someone brought along, etc, no hi-end offerings, unfortunately.
As to clamps, my TT had its own. I sometimes didn't use it for fear of wearing out the bearing... I'd like to report at least an anecdotal difference between clamp & no clamp on a flat, well-preserved record -- but, frankly, can't tell the diffference.

 

[Doodski]

Has anyone ever blind tested or measured audible differences with mats and clamps on turntables? Is the whole thing just another suburb of Snake Oil City?

I special ordered in a carbon fiber mat and noticed the pops and crackles reduced.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I special ordered in a carbon fiber mat and noticed the pops and crackles reduced.

You know double dog gone well, it was the Quantum mechanics of the mat and not the Carbon Fiber!

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

How does it not add any weight? How have people not noticed a big company inventing a device with anti-gravity from thirty years ago? If the clamp weighs something, the weight has to be supported somewhere.

It isn’t meant to add weight it’s there to clamp the record firmly onto the platter. If it did add weight what effect (if any) would it have, especially when you play the outer tracks? Imagine a thin strip of wood supported at both ends, then place a heavy weight in the middle, it would cause the wood to lift at both ends. On a record it may cause more problems than it solves? Project supply a screw down clamp with some of their turntables. Had one a few years ago and couldn’t tell any difference whether it was on or off.

 

[Gekel]

Anyone knows QSA (Quantum science audio)? They sell some nice stuff, e.g. a silver fuse, advertised in a strange way:

Qsa team research 22years to find the relation between science data and music. "

QSA technologies:
1 MAT - Metal molecular activation technology is to increases the number of electron flows per second of the conductor technology,much lower background noise.

2 MMMAT - Musical Metal molecule Alignment Technology music playback in musical way. music become so live, it’s so lively, and there is magic to listen to one song after another. This kind of magic has never been seen before.

3 SDCT (used in silver series) - Skin Deep Compensation Technology. By compensation the effective depth of penetration of an electromagnetic wave Any type of vaccum tube can apply

Enjoy the Musical Metal molecule Alignment +mat Technology

6levels,4styles analog ,digital, video and active subwoofer use

quantum-science-audio.com

Such a silver fuse is sold for 5k USD, and the guys at audiophilestyle are already singing the song of the unbelievable sound improvement in their digital systems by replacing the fuses of the gear.:" This is a QSA silver fuse. It retails for $5000. It can be obtained cheaper, but still... it's the most expensive fuse I have seen by far. I am listening to one of these right now, and it's hard to comprehend what this thing does. First, it sounds amazingly good. Second, it sounds a lot better than bypassing the fuse."

Side note: Assume those QSA guys know something about "metal molecule alignment" and did try this with e.g. iron. Then I wonder with which crystal structure they ended after realigning the "molecules". The crystal structure of iron at room temp is body centered cubic (bcc), and I never heard of any other structure, but I am just a chemist with a PhD, and they are quantum science audio gods.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Anyone knows QSA (Quantum science audio)? They sell some nice stuff, e.g. a silver fuse, advertised in a strange way:


Such a silver fuse is sold for 5k USD, and the guys at audiophilestyle are already singing the song of the unbelievable sound improvement in their digital systems by replacing the fuses of the gear.

Was offered some silver fuses for free by a dealer who was retiring, he said they made a difference? Never bothered taking him up on the offer, couldn’t see how it was worth stripping down my gear to identify what was needed.
Thinking about it after posting the only advantage I can see is Silver Oxide burns off at a low temperature, widely used in switch contacts they are said to be self cleaning.

 

[antcollinet]

....... Second, it sounds a lot better than bypassing the fuse."

Wow - we should just replace all PCB traces with these fuses soldered together. Imagine the sound improvement then!!