Report: Faulty HDMI 2.1 chip in receivers also prevents QMS from working (not fixable?)

[sgent]

flatpanelshd article

In 2020, Denon, Marantz and Yamaha launched the first receivers with HDMI 2.1. Such HDMI 2.1 receivers are required if you want to pass-though PS5 or Xbox Series X's highest-quality video signals (4K120 with HDR, 8K60, 120Hz VRR etc.) through the receiver.

Unfortunately, it turned out that the HDMI 2.1 chip for receivers made by Nuvoton was faulty. Manufacturers scrambled to find a solution but it ultimately required a new HDMI board which amended the situation but did not fully fix it.

HDMI 2.1 bug also affects QMS​

The HDMI 2.1 bug is back with a vengeance, this time to wreak havoc on QMS (Quick Media Switching) which is finally emerging in Apple TV 4K (2022) and 2023 LG OLED TVs.

 

[ArturoKiwi]

It would be usefull to know which avr is affected to this big problem...

 

[cyclo]

Do the newer Denon Receivers (X3800H and X4800H) and Marantz PrePro/Receivers (AV10, AVR 50 and AVR 40) have updated HDMI 2.1 chipsets that fixes these bugs? I have my sources (Apple TV, Sony Blu-ray player) connected to my LG TV and I really like the QMS implementation on both the Apple TV and LG TV which result in smoother transition (no black screen) when switching video sources with different frame rates. I have the LG's HDMI eARC connected to my Marantz AV7702 Pre Pro's ARC output and I am able to pass Dolby Atmos to it.

However the downside to having the inputs connected to the TV is that changing the volume does not show the AV's volume bar/number indicator on the TV and instead only shows either the AppleTVs smaller vertical indicator or LGs vertical indicator depending on which remote I am using. The volume number is not displayed when using either remotes and I have to look at the Pre Pros display panel to see the volume number which is a bit hard to see since the Pre Pro is approximately 10 feet away.

I am thinking of getting a newer AVR but I am wondering if QMS issue along with others (120HZ at 4K bug) have been resolved on the latest receivers.

 

[ban25]

Do the newer Denon Receivers (X3800H and X4800H) and Marantz PrePro/Receivers (AV10, AVR 50 and AVR 40) have updated HDMI 2.1 chipsets that fixes these bugs? I have my sources (Apple TV, Sony Blu-ray player) connected to my LG TV and I really like the QMS implementation on both the Apple TV and LG TV which result in smoother transition (no black screen) when switching video sources with different frame rates. I have the LG's HDMI eARC connected to my Marantz AV7702 Pre Pro's ARC output and I am able to pass Dolby Atmos to it.

However the downside to having the inputs connected to the TV is that changing the volume does not show the AV's volume bar/number indicator on the TV and instead only shows either the AppleTVs smaller vertical indicator or LGs vertical indicator depending on which remote I am using. The volume number is not displayed when using either remotes and I have to look at the Pre Pros display panel to see the volume number which is a bit hard to see since the Pre Pro is approximately 10 feet away.

I am thinking of getting a newer AVR but I am wondering if QMS issue along with others (120HZ at 4K bug) have been resolved on the latest receivers.

The current HDMI 2.1 chipsets are very solid and support 4K120 perfectly fine. The issue with missing the AVR OSD is due to you running your sources to your TV and eARC audio to the AVR. The AVR cannot composite its OSD into the HDMI video source without access to said source.

 

[cyclo]

The current HDMI 2.1 chipsets are very solid and support 4K120 perfectly fine. The issue with missing the AVR OSD is due to you running your sources to your TV and eARC audio to the AVR. The AVR cannot composite its OSD into the HDMI video source without access to said source.

I know that which is why I want to get an updated AVR or Pre Pro so I can connect the inputs directly to it instead of the TV. What I am concerned about when doing so (getting a new AVR and connecting the inputs to the AVR instead of the TV, especially in the case of the Apple TV) is if QMS (Quick Media Switching) now work fine with these receivers. Based on the articles linked to above, the original HDMI 2.1 chipset from Nuvoton which were used in Marantz and Denon receivers among others were buggy and did not implement QMS properly among other issues.

 

[ban25]

I know that which is why I want to get an updated AVR or Pre Pro so I can connect the inputs directly to it instead of the TV. What I am concerned about when doing so (connecting inputs to the AVR instead of the TV, especially in the case of the Apple TV) is if QMS (Quick Media Switching) works fine with these receivers. Based on the articles linked to above, the original HDMI 2.1 chipset from Nuvoton which were used in Marantz and Denon receivers among others were buggy and did not implement QMS properly among other issues.

Yeah, IIRC, QMS is still not properly implemented due to specification changes and will not be until probably 2025/2026.

 

[cyclo]

Yeah, IIRC, QMS is still not properly implemented due to specification changes and will not be until probably 2025/2026.

I did a little more digging and indeed QMS is still not working on the new batch of AVRs... It is not until 2026 when nuvoton will update the HDMI chipsets used on a variety of AVRs. Link to article: "There is probably no solution to this problem – in contrast to the HDMI 2.1 bug: According to our current knowledge, the QMS implementation of the current chips cannot be "bent" to fit with a firmware update. According to c't information, Nuvoton's roadmap also does not envisage the next revision of the HDMI chip until 2026. Until then, no processor with QMS according to HDMI 2.1a will come from the manufacturer," reports Heise.de's c't magazine.

 

[NOAMattD]

This has been known for a while. I remember reading on AVS that it's probably not going to be until 2026 that new chips with the correct implementation will be available. It's a hardware issue that cannot be fixed with firmware so qms is going to be bugged in all current and probably the next generation of avr's.

 

[DrStranger]

Hold on to your undies peeps... HDMI org has announced 2.1b

- HDMI - One mess, to rule them all -

 

[ban25]

Hold on to your undies peeps... HDMI org has announced 2.1b

- HDMI - One mess, to rule them all -

Can't let USB show them up!