PSI Audio Avaa C20 experience

[Justdafactsmaam]

Also it does look like the ARC is doing something that it should not be doing from about 35 hz down after 200 milliseconds

 

[DJBonoBobo]

OK - back with my REW measurements. This is my first time using REW. I followed Amir's guide (and a few others I found online), but let me know if something seems obviously wrong, or if there is another graph that would be more useful to see (I did frequency, waterfalls and spectrograms).

I did 4 measurements --- the first one had neither room correction (ARC) nor the AVAA active; the second had just AVAA on, the third had just ARC, and the fourth had both AVAA and ARC.

I am curious how the waterfall/spectrograms look in particular since I have trouble reading those.

Two notes based on my very amateur detective work:

• Re: frequency response, the AVAA seems to make the null at 55hz a little worse, but does flatten out some of the other responses (at least a bit).
• Re: waterfall/spectrogram - the AVAA seems to both reduce decay time from about 40hz to 125hz fairly dramatically
• Re: ARC - it seems to have a very positive effect, but it does seem to significantly increase the decay SPL levels under 32HZ, and possibly cause some issues between 100hz and 130hz in the waterfall (I wonder if changing the ARC settings/targets could fix some of that?)

View attachment 343582
View attachment 343572View attachment 343573View attachment 343574View attachment 343575View attachment 343576View attachment 343577View attachment 343578View attachment 343579

I would not use 1/6 smoothing. Try var smoothing.

 

[Bjorn]

You're comparing too much here. Concentrate first on AVAA vs none and leave out the ARC. Use 1/24 smoothing and show waterfall up to 300 Hz.

 

[aerochrome2]

You're comparing too much here. Concentrate first on AVAA vs none and leave out the ARC. Use 1/24 smoothing and show waterfall up to 300 Hz.

Sure - see below

 

[aerochrome2]

I would not use 1/6 smoothing. Try var smoothing.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

View attachment 343976

You can see much better here, that in your current configuration/placement, the AVAA has only 1 significant impact: it reduces the dip at 95Hz circa +6dB. This is a good thing, but so narrow i don't think it is a big difference.

 

[aerochrome2]

You can see much better here, that in your current configuration/placement, the AVAA has only 1 significant impact: it reduces the dip at 95Hz circa +6dB. This is a good thing, but so narrow i don't think it is a big difference.

Agreed - but you can see a much bigger difference on the waterfalls

 

[holdingpants01]

Shortening the 30-40Hz response by more than 200ms is great and impossible to do using passive traps of similar size. Peaks in the response can be EQed easily, but making the low end tighter is what AVAAs do the best and better than any EQ. It's not on Dirac ART level but it's the next best thing

 

[aerochrome2]

Shortening the 30-40Hz response by more than 200ms is great and impossible to do using passive traps of similar size. Peaks in the response can be EQed easily, but making the low end tighter is what AVAAs do the best and better than any EQ. It's not on Dirac ART level but it's the next best thing

Agreed - in all of this, I haven't mentioned any subjective impressions, but I am getting much less mud with A/B testing and very happy with how it sounds. I am going to mess with ARC and see if I can figure out what it is doing to the signal under about 32hz - I have some ideas on how to fix that.

 

[holdingpants01]

Agreed - in all of this, I haven't mentioned any subjective impressions, but I am getting much less mud with A/B testing and very happy with how it sounds. I am going to mess with ARC and see if I can figure out what it is doing to the signal under about 32hz - I have some ideas on how to fix that.

if you're using a sub you should be able to more or less flatten the low end response with placement and then room correction, especially the 60-100Hz should be much louder without any EQ. What is your setup?

 

[aerochrome2]

if you're using a sub you should be able to more or less flatten the low end response with placement and then room correction, especially the 60-100Hz should be much louder without any EQ. What is your setup?

Sources (digital and turntable) --> Martin Logan Unison for ARC only --> digital out to SMSL DAC --> nCORE class D Amp --> KEF LS50 METAs / single SVS SB1000 Pro.

So I don't have full bass management capabilities, but you can see in the earlier posts what ARC accomplishes when it is thrown into the mix. I think the effect is incredibly positive, except it dramatically increased decay time and SPL under 32hz, which I believe I can fix adjusting the "targets" in the ARC software as far as low end rolloff and crossover. It would be easier if I had full bass management, but that might be the next upgrade next year, especially if I add a second sub.

 

[holdingpants01]

Sources (digital and turntable) --> Martin Logan Unison for ARC only --> digital out to SMSL DAC --> nCORE class D Amp --> KEF LS50 METAs / single SVS SB1000 Pro.

So I don't have full bass management capabilities, but you can see in the earlier posts what ARC accomplishes when it is thrown into the mix. I think the effect is incredibly positive, except it dramatically increased decay time and SPL under 32hz, which I believe I can fix adjusting the "targets" in the ARC software as far as low end rolloff and crossover. It would be easier if I had full bass management, but that might be the next upgrade next year, especially if I add a second sub.

Can you measure only the sub and only the LS50s without the sub and any filters?

 

[aerochrome2]

Can you measure only the sub and only the LS50s without the sub and any filters?

Project for next weekend...

 

[holdingpants01]

Project for next weekend...

at least try to flip the polarity of the sub, the in room response is rather curious for a 2.1 system. There's something funky going on with it, could be the sub placement which is not right at the wall or corner and too far into the room, or LS50 not being filtered and out of phase with the sub, or something like that, but the polarity switch could quickly help (or make things worse)

 

[DJBonoBobo]

It is true you can see an effect in the waterfall and the AVAA has this effect indepently from the FR. Same in my room. But, 2 things:
- If you cut the peaks with EQ, the resonances in the waterfall will also be drastically reduced and the difference between with/without AVAA will be smaller.
- There is no consensus that bass ringing differences like that are actually audible. I got this response from the programmer of REW himself when i showed my similar results a few years ago:

Bass in small bedroom (effects of PSI AVAA, subwoofer and EQ, also passive absorbtion)

Hello, for some time i´m trying to get a smooth bass response in my small bedroom (14 sqm). I recently tried to throw some money at it and just wanted to share my experiences. I show you the effects of EQ, 2x PSI AVAA and a subwoofer for your amusement. Please note: Everything i say i solely...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[aerochrome2]

It is true you can see an effect in the waterfall and the AVAA has this effect indepently from the FR. Same in my room. But, 2 things:
- If you cut the peaks with EQ, the resonances in the waterfall will also be drastically reduced and the difference between with/without AVAA will be smaller.
- There is no consensus that bass ringing differences like that are actually audible. I got this response from the programmer of REW himself when i showed my similar results a few years ago:

Bass in small bedroom (effects of PSI AVAA, subwoofer and EQ, also passive absorbtion)

Hello, for some time i´m trying to get a smooth bass response in my small bedroom (14 sqm). I recently tried to throw some money at it and just wanted to share my experiences. I show you the effects of EQ, 2x PSI AVAA and a subwoofer for your amusement. Please note: Everything i say i solely...

www.audiosciencereview.com

You can see ARC alone in the original graphs I posted. There seems to be significant improvement when ARC and AVVA are both operating

 

[holdingpants01]

It is true you can see an effect in the waterfall and the AVAA has this effect indepently from the FR. Same in my room. But, 2 things:
- If you cut the peaks with EQ, the resonances in the waterfall will also be drastically reduced and the difference between with/without AVAA will be smaller.
- There is no consensus that bass ringing differences like that are actually audible. I got this response from the programmer of REW himself when i showed my similar results a few years ago:

Bass in small bedroom (effects of PSI AVAA, subwoofer and EQ, also passive absorbtion)

Hello, for some time i´m trying to get a smooth bass response in my small bedroom (14 sqm). I recently tried to throw some money at it and just wanted to share my experiences. I show you the effects of EQ, 2x PSI AVAA and a subwoofer for your amusement. Please note: Everything i say i solely...

www.audiosciencereview.com

1. not always especially not in the spectrogram, as shown before
2. there may not be general consensus but it's pretty easily noticeable with specific material

 

[Bjorn]

Sure - see belowView attachment 343971View attachment 343972

View attachment 343973View attachment 343974

Thanks. In this case, the difference is super small. And I don't trust measurements when it comes to ringing very low in frequency (typically in 20-40 Hz range). That's challenging to get right for several reasons. Often, running two measurements after each other will yield a different result despite nothing has been changed.

Here's a measurement with and without one single Modex Plate type 2. Red is with and green is without.

And here are measurements with without and with two Broadsorbor with dimension 150x80x10.4 cm.
Without:

Added two Broadsorbors on side wall behind speakers (one on each side wall) - notice especially the 110-120 Hz area in comparison:

 

[ErVikingo]

Has someone used or has some feedback to share on these?

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