ASR has saved many of us. It's amazing how much BS is thrown at people looking to buy audio gear. They try to make you believe even spending $20k is not enough to get 'good sound'
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- Thread starter gallionetech
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Seeing a lot of snake oil popping up on my local used online market, definitely not a coincidence.
Phoney
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In this hobby, price does not equal performance, that's for sure. I was also blown away by that realisation, and that's one of the reasons to why I became so interested in the science part of audio. It's actually crazy how much our ears can fool someone, as long as they believe the audiophile myths. Let's say someone "upgrades" their DAC/amp/cable to a more expensive one, and when they recieve it, they focus a lot more on the music while trying it out. By paying more attention to the music, they notice certain details in the music and instanly believe that this is their new DAC/amp/cable revealing those details for them. Retailers tell you what their cable does to your sound, you put on tracks that has those characteristics, and the confirmation bias kicks in. This especially happens at audio shows, where they tell you what to hear before you try their stuff out. I'm sure many retailers know this whole bias thing and how people can get tricked by their ears. There's also this whole "burn in" myth, which there's little to no evidence that exists, but the sellers keep telling you that it needs to be burned in for x amount of hours so that you could miss the return window. I've had the guy at the local shop telling me that when I wanted to return something that I just didn't like at all.
Back in the day, we used to be told that EQ is bad and that you should never use it. It's becoming more apparent as to why that was happening. By using equalization, you can make headphones sound a lot better for free. This can decrease the "flaws" of any headphones, and makes some people feel less of an urge to upgrade to more pricey headphones or have many different ones for different sound signatures. It also goes against snake oil advertisement about expensive cables and amps/dacs fixing the response somehow, when even if it was true (which it's not), a free EQ can do it anyways. With some headphones you pay a lot just to get a good frequency response out of the box. With an EQ, you have a lot more choices in any price range, where you can be fine with buying a headphone that needs a boost in some areas for example. Frequency response tuning is the most important part of a headphones sound performance, and with EQ you have alot of freedom to improve it. There's a ton of headphones out there that has some turn offs in the tuning, and just about any headphone can be improved in EQ. It makes a much bigger improvement than any amp/dac/cable can do, so I would advice you to get into that. Oratory1990 has the most popular EQ presets, they are considered as fairly neutral (all aspects of the music will be presented fairly equally). Might not be necessary with your IEMs, as some IEMs like the one you've got has excellent tuning in stock form. Meanwhile for headphones it's an amazing tool. You could use a preset as a starting point, and after learning a bit more about it, you could try to tune it to preferrence by experimenting with changes to that preset. Just be a bit mindful of not getting too hung up with an endless urge to try to improve your EQ settings, you might end up fiddling with the EQ too much rather than enjoying the amazing sound.
Oh, and btw, don't underestimate the importance of comfort. If something gets uncomfortable after 30 minutes, it's going to impact your audio experience aswell, because you will get distracted from the music. There's a lot of uncomfortable headphones out there unfortunately.
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oh my god
Phoney
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I don't think what happened to this guy is actually unique. Most of people who are new to the hobby that go through something like this either keeps buying into it, or atleast doesn't write a post about it. I myself bought a lot of snake oil very early on. It was very tempting after reading raving reviews and hearing what the seller said, and I had no clue about what mattered and what didn't. Now, I definetly didn't spend the same amount as the OP, but some retailers are preying on people who are new to the hobby. They smell blood when they get in touch with them.
Keith_W
Major Contributor
He came here for help, not to be sneered at.
Killingbeans
Major Contributor
Much better choices overall, remember to always shop from places that have a good return policy. Headphones.com apparently has a 365-day return policy although I have had no experience with dealing with them, Apos audio is also good too if you're the US, otherwise there's amazon or even local shops. If money is no object I would personally have got the new RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE which is an improvement on the old one ($1000 more than the Topping stack and one single unit which I prefer, also has EQ and a lot of other useful features built in), but the Topping stack is still an exceptional top-tier choice overall. I guess this option is still on the table for you since you can always return to Apos.
An audio show is the absolute worst place to try out any sort of gear. If your goal is to find something you like or something better than something you have you will always find it, even if that feeling is only temporary. You're in a high noise floor unrelaxed environment, your spirits are up because you're interested in everything and having a great time at an event- everything probably sounds better than it will at home, you have an unrelenting barrage of marketing and people trying to shill you new products, maybe you'll have a different seal or positioning with certain headphones/pads as you would at home which will change the frequency response- there are just way too many variables. So, just treat an audio show like entertainment rather than window shopping for new gear. The proper way to go about things would be to have lots of experience listening to a current headphone you like that has accurate measurements available, then experimenting with EQ to figure out what sounds more accurate or better to you using EQ to dial that in. Compare the EQ'd response of the existing headphone to responses of other headphones out there that may be similar and may have improvements in other regards (better bass extension, smoother treble, increased comfort, lower distortion drivers, open/closed design according to your use case, replaceable parts, etc.
The goal should be to be able read FR charts and understand how boosts or cuts in frequency ranges changes the overall timbre of the sounds you hear- having practical experience fiddling with EQ and comparing responses is infinitely more useful than listening to youtube reviews and many times even more useful than even hearing a headphone in person once or twice. Since Expanse is probably one of the best headphones out there, you will probably be extremely satisfied and stick with that as is, or if there's something about it that's not quite working for you, use EQ to dial in. In the event you really don't like expanse, the frequency response and what you didn't like about is valuable information in order to make an informed choice next time.
I am so sorry you got taken to the cleaners. This is very, very common for people with money. Once they sniff out that you have some big bucks, they start on the $5000 cable, $5000 headphones and $15,000 stack. When you leave the store with your new awesome equipment, the salesman jumps for joy at the massive commission he just racked up. Glad you are here on ASR. ASR will make you knowledgeable and give you great advice if needed. One thing I have noticed about people with a lot of money is that they buy quick and spend a fortune. It is MUCH easier to hang out here and buy over a 6 month period and learn a lot on the way. The single biggest, largest caveat is that everything in headphones is dependent on the person. Some people will like Dan Clark and swear by it, others will swear by other brands and models. You have to buy headphones that sound fantastic to you. No one else can buy for you. One of my pet peeves on head phones is bass. I want serious high quality deep bass. If they don't do that it is an instant negative for a purchase. Also Amir gives you the EQ numbers you need to improve the models he recommends. Slow down on your journey and enjoy the ride. It is not like buying a car or a boat.
Oh, I can recommend a car if you can fit into it. The new 2023 Corvette ERay. It is an amazing piece of machinery. But only keep it until the warranty runs out and then sell it and buy another one! Repairs on any Corvette in the last few years is very expensive. Have fun and hang out here with the rest of us.
Oh, I can recommend a car if you can fit into it. The new 2023 Corvette ERay. It is an amazing piece of machinery. But only keep it until the warranty runs out and then sell it and buy another one! Repairs on any Corvette in the last few years is very expensive. Have fun and hang out here with the rest of us.
My old extremely heavy body can't even fit through the door to get in. I'd love a corvette but I have to lose 100 pounds. One of my cheeks will fit in the entire seat. So, it remains a dream. Glad to hear you have some stout rides. Nothing like lots of horsepower!
Sell those wonder cables to someone who really wants them and buy yourself some nice custom iems or studio monitors.
It's ok to spend good money on cables but not more than a couple hundred for something. Hand made in first world with very wire ane components, maybe with modular interconnects. Like Hartaudio or others. Most cables are pretty good. Sometimes ergonomics can be bad though. Low resistance <1ohm, no microphonics, low weight and quality wire and connectors.
It's ok to spend good money on cables but not more than a couple hundred for something. Hand made in first world with very wire ane components, maybe with modular interconnects. Like Hartaudio or others. Most cables are pretty good. Sometimes ergonomics can be bad though. Low resistance <1ohm, no microphonics, low weight and quality wire and connectors.
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OP
gallionetech
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The Broadway, and JPS Labs cables are on the way to Amir. Excited to see the review
Elitzur–Vaidman
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Can I just pop in to say how nice it is to have someone who doesn't argue that all of their previous purchases were good ideas and actually wants to learn?
agreed. OP took it pretty well - I felt bad for him initially but am happy for him and admire his attitude. if all "audiophiles" have that open mind, this industry would be a much better place
Agreed. I've been on a brief, but interesting journey with the OP as I've read through this thread and I'm happy to see that things are shaping up for the better. ASR is such a great community but some people who come on here struggle to take the advice they seek without seeing it as an affront to their integrity. We all make mistakes, especially when buying hi-fi.
Anyway. I really do feel for the OP as there are far too many unscrupulous characters out there in hi-fi land who'd be happy to bleed your bank account dry and take the roof over your head if they could get away with it. It's a disgrace.
It's always been something of a mixed blessing that I cannot realistically justify £1,000+ headphones. This has led me to be very careful in my purchases and in nearly every case I've been able to return the goods if bought online.
I have about £2,000 invested in my modest headphone collection. The most expensive are the HifiMan Edition XS which were on offer brand new for £349 last year on Amazon here in the UK. I'd have paid the more usual £500 for them given how much I love their sound. I was blown away when I first heard them and they still have that effect on me now. Perhaps they'd be worth auditioning too?
Good luck with your journey to hi-fi nirvana gallionetech!
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Cool. Which seller? Would be cool to have a look.
Since you dont have a budget and are interested in great sound, at the next meet or show you go to, give the hifiman susvara a try and see what ya think.
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He's awesome, I ordered a DCA Expanse cable, HD6XX cable, and XLR interconnects. He made & shipped them out in 1 day, and they arrived in 2. Super happy with them as they are really thin and flexible so they don't get in the way
