PK Sound steerable sound arrays

[Gringoaudio1]

Hello. A company in my city seems to be making waves in the PA and concert sound world: PK Sound. They have vertical arrays of speakers mounted on a flexible spine that can curve and change the angle of how the audience receives the sound in the vertical axis. All remotely controlled. Plus they have controllable wings on the sides of each speaker cabinet to steer the sound horizontally.
Is any of this thinking legit? Vertical arrays suffer from lobing. How is any of this mechanical steering going to improve sound? I guess one selling point is not flooding an entire area with sound and keeping it aimed at the audience and not the surrounding neighborhood (for outside venues). Will it even be successful at this?

 

[NTK]

The shape of the "J" of the line array (together with the shading and delay parameters for each loudspeaker in the array) is important for the optimization of the sound coverage of the audience area.

For different audience area setups (e.g. whether the audiences is closer to the stage or further from the stage, or if they are spread-out or packed together), the shape and arrangement of the array may likely need to be changed. An array that can be robotically reconfigured can eliminate the need of taking the whole array down to re-setup the array geometry, and that can be a major advantage. It also let you easily try out different configurations.

Below are two (random) screenshots of line array simulation software I grabbed from the web. You'll likely want to run some simulations before reconfiguring the array geometry.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

It's more than legit. The PK stuff, when used properly, is a major advancement in modern sound technology. The ability to steer the array AFTER it's flown is massive in order to keep reflections off of walls and make sure that the crowd is properly covered. Plus, it's a really low distortion and powerful PA system. Full disclosure: I worked for them for a short time.

 

[ocinn]

Hi, pro live sound guy here.

The PK stuff is a "solution" to a problem which doesn't really exist in the real world.

Array splay angles are calculated with prediction models. If you need to adjust array splay angles after they are hung, you probably should pursue a different career.
Adjustable horizontal coverage has ben around since 2005 (kudo). Nothing really groundbreaking here.

But the largest issue with PK is the weight. So many stages and venues have strict rigging weight limits. Example:

4x PK Trinity = 1036lb
2x L'Acoustics L2 + 1x L'Acoustics L2D = 1024lb

That L2 system would embarrass the 4x Trinity rig, its not even close.

Having to resort to ground stack line arrays because your system was too heavy to fly is absurd. Clair Global tried some and immediately returned it. Very bizzare product and marketing strategy.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Hi, pro live sound guy here.

The PK stuff is a "solution" to a problem which doesn't really exist in the real world.

Array splay angles are calculated with prediction models. If you need to adjust array splay angles after they are hung, you probably should pursue a different career.
Adjustable horizontal coverage has ben around since 2005 (kudo). Nothing really groundbreaking here.

But the largest issue with PK is the weight. So many stages and venues have strict rigging weight limits. Example:

4x PK Trinity = 1036lb
2x L'Acoustics L2 + 1x L'Acoustics L2D = 1024lb

That L2 system would embarrass the 4x Trinity rig, its not even close.

View attachment 361059

Having to resort to ground stack line arrays because your system was too heavy to fly is absurd. Clair Global tried some and immediately returned it. Very bizzare product and marketing strategy.

Hi, another Pro Sound guy here. I'm not sure of the situation where they ground stacked the PA, but you have some misinformation here.
First, Clair didn't return that PA. PK bought it back and they only rent the Trinity for use. Clair would have kept it because that PA was for Derks Bentley and it's still being used for him, but PK developed a different approach to how their PA is deployed. Second, the weight is not a real issue. Trinity boxes weigh 260 lbs. each. Meyer Leo weigh 265 lbs. L-Acoustics K1 weigh 234 pounds but need a lot more cable so the PK array weight in an arena is going to be the same or less than a K1 rig. It's rare that you run into weight problems since we have 2 ton motors. This situation that you're talking about has more to do with an unprepared audio company than a weight problem with the PA. The venues that have strict weight restrictions are usually theaters or larger clubs. The T10 or T8 from PK is the correct box for those place and they weigh a lot less. Plus, many people ground stack part of an array in small theaters to cover the bottom anyway. So again, weight is not an issue when the tour/audio company is properly prepared because these boxes don't weigh more than the competition. Plus, they fly way faster and don't have amp racks on the ground which provides a ton more space.
Next, if you really think that people don't miss on angles when they calculate a PA then you haven't done this much. In an arena where the boxes are shooting 250 feet to the back you can miss by .5 degree and be 10-15 feet off. The PK stuff can be adjusted to .1 (yes 1/10th) of a degree vertically. No other PA even comes close to this granularity (and I've flown/mixed on most of them). Often times you don't get the trim height you need and this this the only PA that you can adjust after the fact and it's the only solution for this. Plus, the horizontal steering wave guides are the future and fix a ton of problems. Imagine having a PA that can steer off of a thrust when an artist goes out there with the microphone. You can avoid feedback without having to "over-EQ" the mic for everyone in the house. You can also steer away from the concession stands so people can order food in a quieter environment. You can also steer away from houses, walls, theater balconies, etc. Unfortunately, it is improperly deployed at times and it seems that your situation here is one of those.

When you say that the L2 system "would embarrass" the Trinity you're providing an objective statement based on your experience and that's not very relevant here at ASR. It's an opinion. L-Acoustics makes amazing stuff, but let's stay grounded in what we can know are facts. The fact is that PK has developed 3 different line array products that have multi-axis robotic in them. When used properly, they solve an array (pun intended) of problems that no other PA does. Yes, they will be deployed improperly at times, but we know that this happens with all gear. I encourage you to really dive into it and understand what they are doing rather than attacking them based on misinformation.

 

[scrubb]

Nice to hear from the pro-sound crowd. I don't know anything about PK Sound. For my part, I was a small-time live audio engineer for 8 years about 25 years ago when modern line arrays were in their infancy. My company was still using stacked horn systems from the 1970s driven by Phase Linear amps. Most large concert systems were box arrays which were loud up front, quiet in back, and created a muddy, noisy wash of out-of-sync sound. Take a look at my avatar. It's the center element from the Grateful Dead's Wall of Sound. I believe that part was for vocals. Image what that would look like in a spinorama. With the (re?)invention of the modern line array, concert sound has moved forward tremendously. The key is speaker dispersion. Each element of a line array has narrow vertical dispersion and wide horizontal dispersion, and each element is aimed at particular parts of the audience. The idea is that it's loud, but not too loud, up front and still loud in the back with every part of the venue covered. This creates much cleaner, intelligable, comfortable audio across the whole venue. I really enjoy going to large concerts these days because it almost always sounds terrific.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Nice to hear from the pro-sound crowd. I don't know anything about PK Sound. For my part, I was a small-time live audio engineer for 8 years about 25 years ago when modern line arrays were in their infancy. My company was still using stacked horn systems from the 1970s driven by Phase Linear amps. Most large concert systems were box arrays which were loud up front, quiet in back, and created a muddy, noisy wash of out-of-sync sound. Take a look at my avatar. It's the center element from the Grateful Dead's Wall of Sound. I believe that part was for vocals. Image what that would look like in a spinorama. With the (re?)invention of the modern line array, concert sound has moved forward tremendously. The key is speaker dispersion. Each element of a line array has narrow vertical dispersion and wide horizontal dispersion, and each element is aimed at particular parts of the audience. The idea is that it's loud, but not too loud, up front and still loud in the back with every part of the venue covered. This creates much cleaner, intelligable, comfortable audio across the whole venue. I really enjoy going to large concerts these days because it almost always sounds terrific.

Absolutely true. With cardioid subs, sub steering, and now waveguide steering we will have the ability to customize every venue even more. PK's developments are the future of live sound.

 

[617]

Interesting to see a discussion of modern PA technology. The performance standards are somewhat less than what am audiophile might want at home, but the task of wide coverage and output is fascinating. I'm also surprised to see consumers with brand awareness of PA systems.

I have to admit I miss bad concert sound. It can have a chaotic abrasive character which suits some music. Hearing a band sound like a recording just isn't the same as a kick drum in a small venue and vocals bouncing off concrete.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Interesting to see a discussion of modern PA technology. The performance standards are somewhat less than what am audiophile might want at home, but the task of wide coverage and output is fascinating. I'm also surprised to see consumers with brand awareness of PA systems.

I have to admit I miss bad concert sound. It can have a chaotic abrasive character which suits some music. Hearing a band sound like a recording just isn't the same as a kick drum in a small venue and vocals bouncing off concrete.

That's a new perspective. I work in the pro audio world and I rarely encounter anyone who wants it to sound worse......Ha!
What do you mean about performance standards being somewhat less than an audiophile might want at home?

 

[617]

That's a new perspective. I work in the pro audio world and I rarely encounter anyone who wants it to sound worse......Ha!
What do you mean about performance standards being somewhat less than an audiophile might want at home?

You sacrifice linearity for dispersion. Audiophile speakers normally have a very dialed in axial response and a smooth DI which is just so the reverberent sound field doesn't have noticeable resonances.

Also, you guys deal with a whole different level of output, which means arrays, which involve a degree of interference, or waveguide, which are again optimized for output and CD rather than linearity in a small zone. Live sound often has a distant yet harsh quality.

My complaint about concert sound is mostly the bass. Somehow it doesn't have warmth and body even when it's loud and intelligible, but I'm sure that's a venue by venue thing. I'm also not a fan of how some instruments sound micd up, like horns. Somehow it sometimes sounds like a bad recors rather than a great concert.

But obviously the basic level of quality has never been better, and the bad seats at a venue used to be really really bad.

Of course if the music is good who cares.

 

[IPunchCholla]

Interesting to see a discussion of modern PA technology. The performance standards are somewhat less than what am audiophile might want at home, but the task of wide coverage and output is fascinating. I'm also surprised to see consumers with brand awareness of PA systems.

I have to admit I miss bad concert sound. It can have a chaotic abrasive character which suits some music. Hearing a band sound like a recording just isn't the same as a kick drum in a small venue and vocals bouncing off concrete.

One of our local small venues, that bands I like tend to play in, is the ultimate concrete box. Yet one band (King Buffalo) brought there own sound guy with his own mixing station, and it sounded incredible, over the same PA. It was kinda amazing.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

You sacrifice linearity for dispersion. Audiophile speakers normally have a very dialed in axial response and a smooth DI which is just so the reverberent sound field doesn't have noticeable resonances.

Also, you guys deal with a whole different level of output, which means arrays, which involve a degree of interference, or waveguide, which are again optimized for output and CD rather than linearity in a small zone. Live sound often has a distant yet harsh quality.

My complaint about concert sound is mostly the bass. Somehow it doesn't have warmth and body even when it's loud and intelligible, but I'm sure that's a venue by venue thing. I'm also not a fan of how some instruments sound micd up, like horns. Somehow it sometimes sounds like a bad recors rather than a great concert.

But obviously the basic level of quality has never been better, and the bad seats at a venue used to be really really bad.

Of course if the music is good who cares.

Excellent assessment. Live sound is certainly difficult to make work in many of the highly reverberant venues out there. The low end issues are similar to what we see in living rooms, just on a larger level. We shoot for high fidelity and even accomplish it from time to time but given the severity of the venues, it just isn't possible in most places. Technology keeps getting us closer though. I will also add that there are some "interesting" approaches that some live sound guys take that might lead to a show sounding harsh or distant. But when you get to experience one of those magic shows, it's certainly incredible. I will say though, if you want to have a good mix then you should mix a good band. There's no substitute for proper playing and good tone.

 

[stoneeh]

Show measurements. Everything else is meaningless.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Show measurements. Everything else is meaningless.

Are you aware of how professional line arrays work? I'm not trying to be combative here, I'm honestly asking. Because the pro's are always using measurements to tune these PA systems. But in order to get the measurements flat, we have to fly the varying size arrays first in order to properly cover the room. Then measurements are taken and DSP is used to flatten the response. The key here is that this PA system can change its array while it's up in the air in order to cover the room consistently. This leads to better measurements and more consistent room coverage without the interference of the room (with much less equalization than most PA systems). So, measurements of just one box are mostly useless because you're going to use an array of anywhere between 6-24 on one side. What's useful would be measurements of the entire array. That being said, it's going to be processed with DSP to be flatter so it's not really the same thing as getting measurements for a hifi speaker. What's relevant is that you can change the array to minimize room reflections. Pro Audio people can recognize how valuable this is.
I have seen hundreds of measurements on these speakers (both an individual speaker and full line arrays). It's not relevant in the Pro Audio world to just post a measurement of one box (in the way we do the klippel or anechoic chamber with hifi) because these will always be used in large scale venues with many other boxes in varying configurations which inherently changes the measurements. But since the speaker itself can control the vertical and horizontal dispersion (and therefore the in-room response) mechanically then you have options to get better measurements that you don't have with other line arrays.
So anyone using this PA system has seen a flatter phase response and more easily controlled flat frequency response throughout the room. But even if I had some of those measurements it would be irrelevant to someone else because that would just be for one situation so there isn't a reason to post any measurements. You would have to get your hands on a rig yourself and do the work.
It's quite meaningful in the Pro Audio world to be able to steer vertically to cover the crowd at the top of an arena. It's meaningful to be able to steer off of a balcony in a theatre. It's meaningful to be able to steer horizontally off of a wall or away from some houses near the venue.