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Mining bitcoin uses more energy than Denmark

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Chromatischism

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There is a big difference between statistical computer modeling and the well formed computation employed by bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't directly use any statistics or complicated modeling for it's behavior. In fact, the most complicated part, it's scripting language, was intentionally limited to NOT be Turing-Complete to eliminate a large class of attack vectors.

It's really bad to try and compare bitcoin to something like climate change models. You have made a category error.
I think it's silly this comparison is even being made. The planet is heating and we have been measuring it for some time, along with the rise in CO2. So ignore the models if that's your concern and just look at the measurements.
 

Chromatischism

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I think every monetary transaction should be tracked and registered forever . I’ve read that 20% of the worlds economy is the black market. And the black economy follows no rules and it does not care fore the environment or society.
So if you are pro drug dealing arms dealers trafficking and environmental disasters go crypto
No. Crypto is not suitable for money laundering because it uses an immutable public ledger, and starting from the point at which you enter USD into the crypto system it is tracked. Criminals use private banks and cash.
 

Mnyb

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You realize that 99% of all criminal activity funding is via USD, right?

>I think every monetary transaction should be tracked and registered forever .

You can only do that with bitcoin. You can verify every transaction on the bitcoin network with your laptop, or even a raspberry pi. Terrible idea to do criminal activity on a completely transparent ledger.
Can a government agency pull out the ledger for all bitcoins ever or is it only for the owner of that specific bitcoins.
If it’s only transparent to the owner it’s still to much anarchy for me.

If you can hide funds with it it’s inherently bad .

I’m not surprised that climate denialists and other flat earthers are in the same venn diagram as bitcoin supporters.

Using so much energy for what ? It makes no sense at all , hence nothing coming from this senseless behaviour can be of any benefit ? And the “investment” in this economy ??

If you buy stock for speculation at the end there often real companies doing something tangible somewhere , something gets built or manufactured .

I’ll take my coat and leave this tread , good luck destroying the world :)
 

droid2000

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I agree climate needs to be addressed (urgently). So let's come up with solutions that don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.

If BTC mining is using 50-60% renewable energy, that's already a good start. That's a better percentage than other businesses using the grid.
I don't agree that "climate" is a problem. No one has ever shown it to be true. The models have never been accurate and climate related deaths are at all time lows.

It's also a misnomer to call "renewable" energy sources renewable. They are more accurately described as "unreliable". They are also not proven to be more environmentally friendly since it is cost prohibitive to recycle wind and solar and they can't be built without "fossil" fuels or machinery powered by fossil fuels. In the end they are net negative.
 

Mnyb

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No. Crypto is not suitable for money laundering because it uses an immutable public ledger, and starting from the point at which you enter USD into the crypto system it is tracked. Criminals use private banks and cash.
So can anyone peruse this ledger and get names and addresses?
 

Chromatischism

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Can a government agency pull out the ledger for all bitcoins ever or is it only for the owner of that specific bitcoins.
So can anyone peruse this ledger and get names and addresses?
Every transaction that has ever occurred on the blockchain since its inception is viewable. Wallet addresses and balances are anonymous but not hidden from view. Law enforcement uses this to track down stolen funds.
 

GaryY

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I agree climate needs to be addressed (urgently). So let's come up with solutions that don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.

If BTC mining is using 50-60% renewable energy, that's already a good start. That's a better percentage than other businesses using the grid.
Besides climate issue, I don't have any trust on crypto which has big peak and null, serious room mode of price as reserve currency which should be much more serious than FR of speakers out of harmankardon target curve.
 

Mnyb

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Every transaction that has ever occurred on the blockchain since its inception is viewable. Wallet addresses and balances are anonymous but not hidden from view. Law enforcement uses this to track down stolen funds.
It’s the anonymous part I don’t like I don’t think wealth should be anonymous at all . But I’m glad some tracking is possible by law enforcement :)
 

droid2000

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Can a government agency pull out the ledger for all bitcoins ever or is it only for the owner of that specific bitcoins.
If it’s only transparent to the owner it’s still to much anarchy for me.

If you can hide funds with it it’s inherently bad .

I’m not surprised that climate denialists and other flat earthers are in the same venn diagram as bitcoin supporters.

Using so much energy for what ? It makes no sense at all , hence nothing coming from this senseless behaviour can be of any benefit ? And the “investment” in this economy ??

If you buy stock for speculation at the end there often real companies doing something tangible somewhere , something gets built or manufactured .

I’ll take my coat and leave this tread , good luck destroying the world :)
Good questions.

The bitcoin ledge is completely transparent. You can verify every transaction that ever took place on your own, with your laptop. It the only money system that offers this capability. All others are obfuscated and hidden.

Value is subjective. Some people value Christmas tree lights every year. They use more energy than bitcoin. Do you have a problem with christmas tree lights too?
 

droid2000

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Besides climate issue, I don't have any trust on crypto which has big peak and null, serious room mode of price as reserve currency which should be much more serious than FR of speakers out of harmankardon target curve.


I think you may be drinking more than me :)
 

Chromatischism

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I don't agree that "climate" is a problem. No one has ever shown it to be true. The models have never been accurate and climate related deaths are at all time lows.
Then just look at the measurements as they are telling a clear story. We are all about measurements here at ASR.


As of this writing:

Carbon Dioxide: 422 ppm (normal range 180-280 ppm)
Global Temperature: +1.1c since preindustrial era (average surface temperature increase—poles are warming 3-4x faster than the equator)
Arctic Sea Ice Minimum Extent: -12.2% per decade since 1979
Ice Sheets: -424 billion metric tons per year
Sea Level: +4 inches since January 1993
Ocean Warming: +345 zettajoules since 1955

This has many implications. The rapid warming of the arctic has disturbed the jet stream, causing the polar vortex to swirl out of control, putting the U.S. into a deep freeze and whipsaw temperature fluctuations several times over the last few years. Rain and drought patterns change. Rain falls less often but much harder. Droughts last longer. Crop production is disturbed. Coral reefs are being scorched and fish reproduction is in decline due to the warming oceans and their acidification from taking up mass quantities of CO2. We are currently witnessing a mass extinction of species on Earth. All that expensive oceanfront real estate battered by flooding will cost more than prevention. I could go on.
 

Chromatischism

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Besides climate issue, I don't have any trust on crypto which has big peak and null, serious room mode of price as reserve currency which should be much more serious than FR of speakers out of harmankardon target curve.
Yeah. Most of them act like stocks in their price behavior. In fact, the mechanisms are exactly the same.

But there are stable coins which would be the real equivalent to a fixed value asset.
 

droid2000

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Then just look at the measurements as they are telling a clear story. We are all about measurements here at ASR.


As of this writing:

Carbon Dioxide: 422 ppm (normal range 180-280 ppm)
Global Temperature: +1.1c since preindustrial era (average surface temperature increase—poles are warming 3-4x faster than the equator)
Arctic Sea Ice Minimum Extent: -12.2% per decade since 1979
Ice Sheets: -424 billion metric tons per year
Sea Level: +4 inches since January 1993
Ocean Warming: +345 zettajoules since 1955

This has many implications. The rapid warming of the arctic has disturbed the jet stream, causing the polar vortex to swirl out of control, putting the U.S. into a deep freeze and whipsaw temperature fluctuations several times over the last few years. Rain and drought patterns change. Rain falls less often but much harder. Droughts last longer. Crop production is disturbed. Coral reefs are being scorched and fish reproduction is in decline due to the warming oceans and their acidification from taking up mass quantities of CO2. We are currently witnessing a mass extinction of species on Earth. All that expensive oceanfront real estate battered by flooding will cost more than prevention. I could go on.

Zoom out. We just came out of an ice age. If you micro-focus you can find all kinds of fuckery. We are too inconsequential to effect planetary change. We're along for the ride.
 

Blumlein 88

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Good questions.

The bitcoin ledge is completely transparent. You can verify every transaction that ever took place on your own, with your laptop. It the only money system that offers this capability. All others are obfuscated and hidden.

Value is subjective. Some people value Christmas tree lights every year. They use more energy than bitcoin. Do you have a problem with christmas tree lights too?
That is not true. Christmas lights don't exceed electrical use of bitcoin. :rolleyes:
 

Chromatischism

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Zoom out. We just came out of an ice age. If you micro-focus you can find all kinds of fuckery. We are too inconsequential to effect planetary change. We're along for the ride.

But didn't that ice age end only about 11,500 years ago?

co2-graph-072623.jpg
 

droid2000

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Snarfie

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Besides BC is AI like ChatGpt becoming an even (more) electric consuming activity. Are there any predictions on that. Or for that matter an Google search. ?
Really how does this all justify any intensic value other than sustaining economic growth/profit maximalization that depleting this world natural resources faster:facepalm:


A few months ago, the Reddit group r/aipromptprogramming posed an interesting question to ChatGPT: How much energy does a single GPT query consume? The estimated energy consumption of a Google search query is 0.0003 kWh (1.08 kJ). The estimated energy consumption of a ChatGPT-4 query is 0.001-0.01 kWh (3.6-36 kJ), depending on the model size and number of tokens processed.
That means a single GPT query consumes 1,567%, or 15 times more energy than a Google search query. To put it in context, a 60W incandescent light bulb consumes 0.06kWh in an hour.l
 
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droid2000

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Besides BC is AI like ChatGpt becoming an even (more) electric consuming activity. Are there any predictions on that. Or for that matter an Google search. ?
Really how does this all justify any intensic value other than mostly profit maximalization that depleting this world natural rescources faster:facepalm:


A few months ago, the Reddit group r/aipromptprogramming posed an interesting question to ChatGPT: How much energy does a single GPT query consume? The estimated energy consumption of a Google search query is 0.0003 kWh (1.08 kJ). The estimated energy consumption of a ChatGPT-4 query is 0.001-0.01 kWh (3.6-36 kJ), depending on the model size and number of tokens processed.
That means a single GPT query consumes 1,567%, or 15 times more energy than a Google search query. To put it in context, a 60W incandescent light bulb consumes 0.06kWh in an hour.l
There is no such thing as intrinsic value. Communists like to think there is, like the labor theory of value, but there isn't. It's made up. Ends badly. Look to the past for confirmation
 
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