Local Music Store Guy Advice

[NicC]

Hi everyone. My name is Nic. In my local area (in Australia), I visited the hifi store to go and listen to a pair of ex-demo, GE Triton Reference speakers which are on sale for about $USD7500. I told the young man I wanted to upgrade my modest system which is fronted by a pair of Dali Zensor 7s along with my Marantz SR5011 and Emotiva XPA 5. I should mention there is also a Definitive Audio subwoofer in the mix which a friend gave me. My wife and I enjoy the sound - whether it's for television and movies, or bluetoothing our favourite music through an iPad playing Spotify. The salesman told me "Mmm, the Tritons are packed away. I can get them out tomorrow for you to listen to, but honestly, they're old technology and you'd be better off with something like the Axxess L3s which are set up in the demo room." So I listened to them, nice, very trebly for my taste, but I have to say there was great clarity and the soundstage was quite impressive - if you sat dead-centre. They were sourced with the Axxess Forte Amp/Streamer and Tidal. My own research has led me to Ascend ELXs and KEF R11s. My goal is to get a big overall boost in sound quality for around $USD7-10 000, mostly in soundstage. I'd appreciate the thoughts of people on this site who have been very helpful in the past. Thank you in advance.

 

[Galliardist]

There aren't any independent measurements for this speaker.
The speakers don't actually appear to have much in the way of genuinely new technology - claims for a driver material stood out on a quick check.

The Borreson name is associated with some major snake oil products which would put me off: that's a "moral" concern rather than anything else, I could say that about a number of companies.

You describe them as "trebly" which to me would also be a clear warning sign. That may be controllable using Audyssey but why start with a bad speaker when you can start with a good one, even then?

When upgrading, I suggest adding features and capability are as important as just replacing working products. Given this is ASR, we should suggest a multichannel setup as the research suggests most people find it preferable to stereo: so adding speakers and using a streaming service that supplies multichannel/Atmos would be a way forwards, if you have the room to do that. That shouldn't preclude upgrading the stereo performance first, or instead if you have room constraints (as I do) - or just prefer a stereo presentation.

Soundstage is rather dependent on the room and source material, so you may do more with EQ or some room treatments (just things like bookshelves, rugs and curtains can help, if you don't want to use commercial treatments in a normal living space) than by replacing speakers, in the first instance.

So to get help here, I'd suggest you tell us about your room as the first step, and how your equipment is set up at the moment. I think we're a bit short of the stage where people can really recommend replacement speakers confidently.

If you enjoy the sound at the moment, you have plenty of time to work out where to go next: don't rush out and buy something "better" but less enjoyable. Ideally a home trial would be a way forward for you

 

[NicC]

Thank you for the reply Galliardist. I appreciate the thoughtfulness in your comments. I genuinely enjoy the 'mono-ish' sound coming from my system as I typically am working on my computer a few feet away and off to the side. And at night, watch a little television/movies sitting in front. However, being 'used to' the sound they make, compared to hearing a set-up in a professionally sound-treated room, was quite an experience with a significant difference. There isn't much I can do with speaker placement and room treatment. It is about 6m x 4m, timber floors, lots of furniture and wide open on 3 sides to other parts of the house through archways! So, not the best acoustically I guess for me, with my very low level knowledge of things technical in audio, perhaps the best question to ask would be, if I wanted to significantly upgrade my sound, how is approximately 10k (AUD) best spread? Is it speakers? A DAC/Amp combo unit? I genuinely thought the ex-demo, GE Triton Reference speakers would be a gamechanger in my home. According to the salesman, not so much. Also, I'm learning that niche manufacturers like Ascend, represent GREAT value in equipment. I like that. And yes, I have plenty of time - good advice. And of course there's always this...if it sounds good to you, why spend on it at all? Ha, I wish my mind operated like that

 

[DVDdoug]

but honestly, they're old technology and you'd be better off with something like the Axxess L3s which are set up in the demo room."

I would listen and decide for yourself. Speakers haven't changed that much over the decades. We still mostly have 2-way and 3-way designs, sealed or ported. The "style" has changed with smaller main speakers becoming more common with a subwoofer taking-over where the small speakers can't put-out the bass. That's not an issue with the speakers you are considering but you still need to subwoofer for the "point 1" channel in movies.

there was great clarity and the soundstage was quite impressive

Floyd Toole says:

The important localization and soundstage information is the responsibility of the recording engineer, not the loudspeaker.

The room can make a difference, and omnidirectional speakers, dipoles and bi-poles will reflect the sound around the room more than a regular forward-firing speaker. Your brain is involved too since it's an illusion with the sound actually coming from a pair of speakers.

how is approximately 10k (AUD) best spread? Is it speakers?

Yes... speakers, speakers, speakers! Most electronics are better than human hearing unless you over-drive an amplifier into distortion.

 

[NicC]

Thanks DVDdoug. To help me understand what you're saying, would a good analogy be speaker is to amp, as car is to fuel? Yes, different fuels can help the car perform better, but ultimately the car is the biggest factor in enjoying the drive? Hence speakers, speakers, speakers.

 

[JSmith]

Or is the amp, more the engine?

The amp has one job, amplification, adding minimal noise and distortion. As long as the amp has enough power for the requirements of the speakers and user, move on to speakers, the room (measurements), EQ and any room treatments that may be required.


JSmith

 

[NicC]

Thank you JSmith. With regards to EQ, I imagine dedicated hardware units with 31 bands for example, do a better job than the software in say the Marantz AV receiver??? Or not enough to warrant the extra expense?

 

[Galliardist]

Speaker loudspeakers Dali Zensor 7 - test - tests, prices and stores | AUDIO
Polish review with measurements. This speaker ialready has a response leaning into the treble, how much I don't know since I haven't looked at their measuring technique.

You have a fairly weighty multichannel power amp that will drive most speakers.

If your setup is a bit "mono" and not very bright, it seems like you may have accepted default settings from Audyssey without also finding a good speaker placement first.

Solid timber floors - a thick rug always helps. So there's your first upgrade...

Then measure. REW and a UMIK 1 mic is seen as a good place to start for that and there's a lot of help to be had around here if you search a little.

Audyssey is decent software and there is a lot of help to be found for that around here as well.

Thank you JSmith. With regards to EQ, I imagine dedicated hardware units with 31 bands for example, do a better job than the software in say the Marantz AV receiver??? Or not enough to warrant the extra expense?

The absolute opposite. Much better done with software in the digital domain!

 

[NicC]

I'm astonished that speaker placement, in reference to walls, could make a difference. My left is in a corner in front of wall A (50cm) and next to wall B (20cm). While the right is in front of wall A (30cm), and next to open space. As the speakers point and project forwards, I'm perplexed that soundwaves can be affected by what is next to, and behind them? Since I'm currently on holidays, I have the time (and inclination) to move them around for the sake of research and to hopefully reach an AHA moment I will be genuinely and happily astonished if I notice anything. But I'd be screwed anyway, because they'll have to go back to their 'walled' positions. I want to thank you all, you've been very helpful, and thought-provoking.