Internal DAC worth replacing?

[Macjan]

Hi, I’m new to the forum.
I’m considering upgrading my system since my streamer broke down. I’m currently using an Auralic mini (broke) for stream with Tidal to a McIntosh MA5200 and a pair of Martin Logans electrostatic speakers.
Should I replace the Auralic with just a streamer or is it worth investing in a new streamer + DAC?
The MA5200 has a built in DAC that’s is now 10 years old. I’m considering buying the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge, which has a streamer + dac + preamp. Would it make a significant difference compared to the built in DAC in my MA5200?

 

[dlaloum]

There hasn't been dramatic progress in DAC's in a couple of decades now....

Pretty much all decently engineered, quality DAC's from the last 15 years, are likely to sound identical (all else being equal) - we are well beyond the threshold of audability on SINAD, Jitter, etc... with DACs.

I am a fan of the Mytek DAC/ADC's - but I would not be expecting a change due to that.

Biggest audible change areas in terms of potential improvements (or sometimes just difference) - is always speaker first, then amp if the speaker is a difficult load (ML stats often are indeed difficult loads!) - and then preamp matching with amp (gain matching, load matching) - and then source.

All of which reinforces my contention that adding an external DAC will not make a noticeable improvement. On the other hand the interface and features of a more recent streamer might be desirable, and provide improved useability....
For your case - I would target user interface, features, and useability.

 

[gvl]

Would it make a significant difference compared to the built in DAC in my MA5200?

Significant? Unlikely. I’d just repurpose an old laptop for streamer duties and used Tidal Connect from a mobile device.

Edit: ouch, I should have checked before posting but unlike Spotify it looks like you can’t control Tidal windows desktop app over “Connect”. Disappointing. Maybe consider a Roon subscription instead.

 

[Macjan]

There hasn't been dramatic progress in DAC's in a couple of decades now....

Pretty much all decently engineered, quality DAC's from the last 15 years, are likely to sound identical (all else being equal) - we are well beyond the threshold of audability on SINAD, Jitter, etc... with DACs.

I am a fan of the Mytek DAC/ADC's - but I would not be expecting a change due to that.

Biggest audible change areas in terms of potential improvements (or sometimes just difference) - is always speaker first, then amp if the speaker is a difficult load (ML stats often are indeed difficult loads!) - and then preamp matching with amp (gain matching, load matching) - and then source.

All of which reinforces my contention that adding an external DAC will not make a noticeable improvement. On the other hand the interface and features of a more recent streamer might be desirable, and provide improved useability....
For your case - I would target user interface, features, and useability.

Thank you! That was really helpful to me. What’s your thoughts on good streaming devices for Tidal?

 

[JaMaSt]

On the other hand the interface and features of a more recent streamer might be desirable, and provide improved useability

+1 Perception

 

[Holmz]

I was a 100% going to suggest what others have in that the DAC will likely make little/subtle, if any difference.

So now, to play the devil’s advocate… I guess if one was using a DSP function in some of the more moderns DACs then it might be worthwhile.

But if your DAC has some DSP in it already, or if you found that not to be of use, then that reasoning goes out the window… PDQ.

 

[gvl]

Thank you! That was really helpful to me. What’s your thoughts on good streaming devices for Tidal?

If you want a dedicated device for Tidal look for ones that support Tidal Connect, this way you’ll be able to use the native Tidal app.

 

[twsecrest]

Reviews show the MA5200 DAC function supports up to 32-bit/192k, so my spider sense tells me that a different external DAC will not likely make a noticeable difference.

 

[gvl]

There’s one more consideration here - MQA. Using a DAC with MQA support you will be utilizing Tidal at its fullest, but again this is not going to affect sound quality in significant ways.

 

[Holmz]

There’s one more consideration here - MQA. Using a DAC with MQA support you will be utilizing Tidal at its fullest, but again this is not going to affect sound quality in significant ways.

My Man, ”MCA got a beard like a billy goat.”…

 

[Macjan]

I was a 100% going to suggest what others have in that the DAC will likely make little/subtle, if any difference.

So now, to play the devil’s advocate… I guess if one was using a DSP function in some of the more moderns DACs then it might be worthwhile.

But if your DAC has some DSP in it already, or if you found that not to be of use, then that reasoning goes out the window… PDQ.

Good point. I honestly did not know the specs of the MA5200 DAC. I’ve checked now after your comment. It has DSP (Digital Sound Processing), Sampling frequency of the audio DAC: 192 kHz. Bit Audio: 32 bit.

 

[Macjan]

There’s one more consideration here - MQA. Using a DAC with MQA support you will be utilizing Tidal at its fullest, but again this is not going to affect sound quality in significant ways.

Right, the MA5200 DAC does not decode MQA. Guess the best way is to get the dealer to play my amp through a DAC that encodes MQA and see if I hear a difference.

 

[Holmz]

Good point. I honestly did not know the specs of the MA5200 DAC. I’ve checked now after your comment. It has DSP (Digital Sound Processing), Sampling frequency of the audio DAC: 192 kHz. Bit Audio: 32 bit.

I mean for my speakers, I think it was @pierre that posted PEQ setting for a DSP to flatten the frequency response.
So if I want, I can… and maybe should… poke those into the DSP of RME to have it correct the speakers while (before) it is doing the conversion.

But if you measured the room, and had some peaks you wanted to :whack a mole” down, then you could do that in the DSP part of a DAC.

If you have zero interest in that, then I would just personally save the coins…
or…
If you were unsure, but wanted the capability (just in case), then a DAC that has it (DSP) should likely be on the list.

 

[dlaloum]

Thank you! That was really helpful to me. What’s your thoughts on good streaming devices for Tidal?

Could not say as I don't use Tidal (and very seldom stream!) - My son sometimes uses Spotify on the system.

Also my primary source component is a HTPC - so if I was to stream, I would probably get an appropriate windows app for it... that is what we do for Spotify

 

[Killingbeans]

I’m considering upgrading my system since my streamer broke down.

Should I replace the Auralic with just a streamer or is it worth investing in a new streamer + DAC?

Being both a dirty hippie and an electronics repairman, I can't help asking in what way it broke down?

I really hate seeing things getting replaced if they can just as easily get fixed.

If one of the surface-mount chips has died, it might not be worth it. But if it's just the solder joints on the RCA connectors that has cracked from mechanical stress, anybody with electronics skills should be able to fix it with a simple reflow, in a matter of minutes.

 

[Macjan]

Being both a dirty hippie and an electronics repairman, I can't help asking in what way it broke down?

I really hate seeing things getting replaced if they can just as easily get fixed.

If one of the surface-mount chips has died, it might not be worth it. But if it's just the solder joints on the RCA connectors that has cracked from mechanical stress, anybody with electronics skills should be able to fix it with a simple reflow, in a matter of minutes.

Thank you. Not much of a hippie myself, but being an in depth Neil Young fan I do listen with respect to anyone who describes himself a hippie! And I totally agree that the best thing would be to repair my Auralic mini since I've been very pleased with my system so far. Here is the way it broke down: Suddenly it just disappeared from my network and I was unable to stream music. Since the device is just a black box I had a hard time understanding what happened. But the led light thad indicates it is operating, or searching the network, has gone black. When I turn it off and then on again it blinks for a second and then goes black. I get no contact with the device over the network. I tried to jiggle a bit around the electricity connector, to see if it is just a simple matter of loose connector. But nothing happens - and my competence in the field of repairing electronics sadly ends right about there...

 

[Killingbeans]

Here is the way it broke down: Suddenly it just disappeared from my network and I was unable to stream music. Since the device is just a black box I had a hard time understanding what happened. But the led light thad indicates it is operating, or searching the network, has gone black. When I turn it off and then on again it blinks for a second and then goes black. I get no contact with the device over the network. I tried to jiggle a bit around the electricity connector, to see if it is just a simple matter of loose connector. But nothing happens - and my competence in the field of repairing electronics sadly ends right about there...

Hmm.. that does sound like something that could potentially be troublesome to fix. What a shame.

But on-topic: I agree that the DAC in the MA5200 probably is about as good as it gets audibly.