Horn Speakers - Is it me or.......

[egellings]

Factoid: An L-pad puts resistance in series with the loudspeaker, thereby reducing the effective damping factor of the power amplifier, as well as becoming part of a voltage divider with the frequency-dependent impedance of the loudspeaker - meaning that the frequency response of the loudspeaker is changed in a manner related to its impedance curve.

True. L-pads are best used in distributed PA systems that allow adjustment of individual speaker volumes to get a good even room coverage. Sound quality, beyond good intelligibility, is not an issue in that setting.

 

[EliGuy]

Here is a design Im working on.. decent directivity and off axis response.

 

[EliGuy]

Now look at the horrible in room response (orange trace). Alot of that hash is in the critical 1 khz to 3 khz range. This is why big waveguides sound so good. They smooth alot of that out at the listening position.

 

[Tim Link]

Now look at the horrible in room response (orange trace). Alot of that hash is in the critical 1 khz to 3 khz range. This is why big waveguides sound so good. They smooth alot of that out at the listening position.View attachment 297883

I think you're right. This is why my long term goal is to build some big midbass horns to get my system back to fully horn loaded. I've been surprised lately at how much I'm enjoying using direct radiator bookshelf speakers for the time being. By keeping the speakers a decent distance from the sidewalls the problem seems to be reduced. Also delaying early side reflections with acoustic treatments can further help.

 

[multichannel_guy]

The reverse is true for me now . When I listen to most non waveguided speakers they always sound like a speaker to me. This is because I'm hearing so many of the room reflections corrupting the signal. You're hearing the ambience of the room in the recording and then hearing your room filtering the signal again. Most of the problems with horns go away when the horns get big enough. Once you get directivity control down below the room transition frequency you dont have that jarring drop off where the sound splashes around. I tend to like wider directivity horns above 90 degrees. 60 degree horns below 1500hz can sound a bit shouty to me. One of my biggest realizations going to horns was just how much of the signal is lost to the room. It doesnt matter how good your midranges are if the sound splashes around your untreated room. Even a cheap driver sounds much better when the sound is directed toward your eardrums.

The 90 degree horns have more room reflections. However, after one treats the room, it is more desirable than the 60 degree horns (shouty)? Is that the consensus?

 

[EliGuy]

The 90 degree horns have more room reflections. However, after one treats the room, it is more desirable than the 60 degree horns (shouty)? Is that the consensus?

If I could treat the room the way I actually wanted I probably woudn't use horns. I'd use a dome midrange with the highest possible dispersion. The problem is for that I would need a dedicated room which I don't have.

 

[multichannel_guy]

If I could treat the room the way I actually wanted I probably woudn't use horns. I'd use a dome midrange with the highest possible dispersion. The problem is for that I would need a dedicated room which I don't have.

There's probably no real way to measure this, but, on some expensive horns, i feel like the vocalist is immediately sitting inside your head, some kind of weird adrenalin rush. I have not experienced it with the other type of speakers such as panels, concentric drivers, open baffle and others, which is maybe what some guys are describing as "live" sound. Unfortunately, they are not in the price category, i can afford. Maybe, DIY could make that type of sound affordable. The other affordable horns such as Klipsch just sound rough and induce nausea.

 

[MAB]

Basically just removes alot of the hiss and other yuckies out of the signal from some noisy amps. Reducing the volume via L-Pad and then increasing the signal increases the signal relative to the noise floor. Im getting out of my depth here, but I have employed this many times and heard the results. Basically when you hear hiss, most of that can be removed with an L-Pad to where it isnt audible from 8 feet away.

Yes.
Here are noise measurements on a D2 compression driver with several different amps with different levels of noise.

Topping PA5 II Stereo Amplifier Review

Please report on your findings. Perhaps if you use the stock psu with a regulator this may help, with sufficient capacitance to prevent voltage sag at high volumes 1 - what makes you think there is voltage sag? 2 - The stock PSU is probably already regulated. 3 - Even if there were voltage sag...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I measure with and without the passive filter. I even did a measurement with only an 8uF filter cap in series and it had almost the same effect as an L-pad.
Also note, the noise is quite low in frequency, not exactly hiss.

 

[Bjorn]

The 90 degree horns have more room reflections. However, after one treats the room, it is more desirable than the 60 degree horns (shouty)? Is that the consensus?

A 60° horn becomes seriously big in order to achieve some broad band directivity. About 1.4 m wide to have constant 60° down to 300 Hz for example.

To say that a horn with 90° will sound better than a horn with 60° beamwidth if the room is treated doesn't make a of sense as it will totally depend on the room geometry, type of treatment, and the goal.

 

[multichannel_guy]

A 60° horn becomes seriously big in order to achieve some broad band directivity. About 1.4 m wide to have constant 60° down to 300 Hz for example.

To say that a horn with 90° will sound better than a horn with 60° beamwidth if the room is treated doesn't make a of sense as it will totally depend on the room geometry, type of treatment, and the goal.

Please fill in these blanks. What is it specifically for each horn type?

60 degree horn:
Room geometry: _____
Treatment type: _______
Goal:_______


90 degree horn:
Room geometry:______
Treatment type:_______
Goal:________

 

[Bjorn]

Please fill in these blanks. What is it specifically for each horn type?

60 degree horn:
Room geometry: _____
Treatment type: _______
Goal:_______


90 degree horn:
Room geometry:______
Treatment type:_______
Goal:________

It's not that easy. In what frequencies is the speaker constant at 60° or 90°?
And all these points influence each other, creating many variables.

For instance: Let's say you have a room that isn't very long but it's quite wide. Because of too close proximity to the rear wall, you can't place diffusers there. You have to primarily absorp the rear wall reflections. In that case, it's very likely that it would be favourable to place diffusers on the opposite side wall reflection points. And that would imply also having a speaker with sufficient wide beam width.

Or let's say you have a very narrow and long room and you can't place treatment on side walls due to windows, WAF, etc. In that case, a very narrow horizontal directivity is likely to be the better choice. But you also have to weigh the directivty up against the size of horn you can live with. If the widest you can live is 60 cm, I probably wouldn't choose a direcitvity of 60° because it would collapse too high in frequency.