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Hifiman Edition XS

KenTajalli

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OK I looked it up, sorry for quick answer.
I wouldn't know.
 

KenTajalli

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I do not see any SE outputs on the CAC apart from RCA, do you mean headphone out?
 

Makafuni

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I do not see any SE outputs on the CAC apart from RCA, do you mean headphone out?
Yes the headphione out
I know this is not the intended way of use
 

KenTajalli

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AAh ..
I wouldn't know for sure, but technically it should be mismatch.
The RCA input on the CAN is rated at 2V input , but 3.5mm is more ssensitive at 1V.
The headphone output of the DAC can pump out over 3V!
It means you can get vastly louder output to your headphones this way, this can have subjective implementations..
There is the minute possibility that headphone output of the DAC, works better with the 1M Ohm input of the amp, but I don't think so.
 

Makafuni

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AAh ..
I wouldn't know for sure, but technically it should be mismatch.
The RCA input on the CAN is rated at 2V input , but 3.5mm is more ssensitive at 1V.
The headphone output of the DAC can pump out over 3V!
It means you can get vastly louder output to your headphones this way, this can have subjective implementations..
There is the minute possibility that headphone output of the DAC, works better with the 1M Ohm input of the amp, but I don't think so.
Yeah I don't think it's the way it's intended to be used and it also lacks some dynamics and lower bass with the 3.5mm jack, which I think maybe gives the illusion of a wider more open stage. The RCA also sounds richer, warmer, fuller, more correct but also more intimate (like HD660s).
I don't get the soundstage people are referring to, with the SE output from the ZEN-CAN with this HP.
 

raistlin65

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Lots of assumptions, proof of the pudding is .....

Great idea!
There is no jumping anything, just about anyone who has Actual experience in using and driving EDXS, has reported it needs higher power.
Pretty much any headphone I own/have owned, there are people who claim it needs way more power than it actually needs. lol

It's the whole "more power for power's sake crowd" because they haven't figured out yet how to estimate how much power they need using impedance, sensitivity, and their preferred listening volume. Or because a manufacturer's sensitivity ratings were wrong one time, they assume it doesn't work to calculate it for any headphone.

And let's not recommend the Mojo or Mojo 2 to the other poster who got the DC05. If he wants a bigger, more powerful, portable headphone amp, the Topping NX7 absolutely slays the Mojo in accuracy (and likely the Mojo 2), although the difference may not be audible. The NX7 has more headphone amp power, and costs under $200.


If someone wants to pay extra for a designer amp because of the name and the fact it's more expensive, nothing wrong with that.

But for most regular folks who are interested in price/performance, NX7 all the way!
 

KenTajalli

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Pretty much any headphone I own/have owned, there are people who claim it needs way more power than it actually needs. lol
True that.
It's the whole "more power for power's sake crowd" because they haven't figured out yet how to estimate how much power they need using impedance, sensitivity, and their preferred listening volume. Or because a manufacturer's sensitivity ratings were wrong one time, they assume it doesn't work to calculate it for any headphone.
Agree
And let's not recommend the Mojo or Mojo 2 to the other poster who got the DC05. If he wants a bigger, more powerful, portable headphone amp, the Topping NX7 absolutely slays the Mojo in accuracy (and likely the Mojo 2), although the difference may not be audible. The NX7 has more headphone amp power, and costs under $200.
Yeh, let's - shall we.
A poster asked a straight question "Does Mojo drive EDXS correctly?" Please read previous posts before getting religious.
"NX7 slays Mojo" let's not recommend anything at all. you have one rule for yourself, another for others.

Screenshot 2022-04-01 003652.jpg

If someone wants to pay extra for a designer amp because of the name and the fact it's more expensive, nothing wrong with that.
But for most regular folks who are interested in price/performance, NX7 all the way!
There you go pushing Topping again, and you accuse others of the same.

Good for anyone who enjoys a Topping.
Mojo a designer amp?? you are joking! you can pick one up on eBay for £200 these days.
NX7 is just an amp, no DAC right?
 
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dreamscene

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You can probably run it to decently loud listening volumes but you wont get good control over the headphone.
Do you own the HP already? I can run them loud enough directly plugged into my mac but it doesn't sound good.
What do you need a portable device for with this headphone? I mean you really can't listen to this hp on the go anyways. just curious on what your use case is.
Reason for Ibasso DC05 as a choice, I was given it for free (haven't received it yet, next week). Well according to the amp / headphone calculator, the Ibasso DC05 portable dac / amp has sufficient power with enough headroom too. Got confused when people were saying the calculator app is bogus and you need 5 x the power it states, that's all. As for use case, for when I am on the laptop around the house or when I am using my mobile phone at the back of the house just chilling with a glass of whiskey and untethered from my desktop setup (Topping DX3pro+).
 
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raistlin65

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True that.

Agree

Yeh, let's - shall we.
A poster asked a straight question "Does Mojo drive EDXS correctly?" Please read previous posts before getting religious.
"NX7 slays Mojo" let's not recommend anything at all. you have one rule for yourself, another for others.

View attachment 196847

There you go pushing Topping again, and you accuse others of the same.

Good for anyone who enjoys a Topping.
Mojo a designer amp?? you are joking! you can pick one up on eBay for £200 these days.
NX7 is just an amp, no DAC right?

You can just connect the NX7 with a dongle. You got to connect it to a digital device somehow.

That's better than buying a used Mojo for more money, with no warranty, with its used battery.
 

Makafuni

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Reason for Ibasso DC05 as a choice, I was given it for free (haven't received it yet, next week). Well according to the amp / headphone calculator, the Ibasso DC05 portable dac / amp has sufficient power with enough headroom too. Got confused when people were saying the calculator app is bogus and you need 5 x the power it states, that's all. As for use case, for when I am on the laptop around the house or when I am using my mobile phone at the back of the house just chilling with a glass of whiskey and untethered from my desktop setup (Topping DX3pro+).
Ok, I still dont Think you can use that calculator to anything but to know if it will get loud enough. If this was true why get an amp in the first place? My zen sac would be a lot more than enough going from this calculator but in reality they sound a lot better on the can on +12db.

So yes of course you can run them loud enough from that device. I do think anyone disagrees with that. What you are asking and what people are telling you is that this pairing won’t do the HP any justice.
You won’t get the much out of them and other HP+amp combos would be a better choice IMO.
It would be like owning a supercar and drive it in the wet.
It’s still a supercar but you won’t get much out of it over any other car.

At least you’re getting it for free, so no issue if it sounds like crap. And you don’t plan to drive them exclusively this way anyhow.
But hey If you can’t hear a difference between your main amp and this portable device -good for you. You can sell your amp and keep the portable☺️
 

odyo

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They probably need around 1W 18ohm to really perform. I'm running them from a zen stack and get pretty good control but im sure they will benefit from even more power. They need current and the zen is current deficient design as i understand it.
As i understand it the zen can delivers around 680mw at 18ohm.
Zen Can single ended 1w, balanced 600mw.
 

Jimbob54

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These headphones are clearly not designed to be someone's portable daily drivers. They are too big, insensitive,open and heavy for that.

The power constraints of phone powered dongles mean they are probably not the first choice for such headphones.

That said, if they are mainly to be used on a desktop rig with occasional mobile dongle use, then a dongle that can drive them to enjoyable levels can be had for less than $100. Im interested how @dreamscene gets on with the ibasso. I've driven some of my low impedance planars occasionally with 2v dongles and had no complaints.
 

Makafuni

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Zen Can single ended 1w, balanced 600mw.
Yeah in 32 ohms right?
But can someone explain to me why it has less power from balanced than SE with low ohm cans?
I tried a balanced cable with the EDXS (returned cuz was silvercoated and it fucked the timbre, -Im getting a copper replacement soon)
But it played louder than the SE when I did some AB with the EDXS. According to those measurements it should be the other way round.
In any ways the balanced sounded a lot better. Better dynamics more control of bass, better seperation and imaging and bigger soundstage.
I think this comes down to the design of the can being balanced. So the balanced circuit is just better build than the SE which i think is there mostly as a convenience.
but the loudness difference I dont get if those measurements are correct.
 

KenTajalli

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Yeah in 32 ohms right?
But can someone explain to me why it has less power from balanced than SE with low ohm cans?
I tried a balanced cable with the EDXS (returned cuz was silvercoated and it fucked the timbre, -Im getting a copper replacement soon)
But it played louder than the SE when I did some AB with the EDXS. According to those measurements it should be the other way round.
In any ways the balanced sounded a lot better. Better dynamics more control of bass, better seperation and imaging and bigger soundstage.
I think this comes down to the design of the can being balanced. So the balanced circuit is just better build than the SE which i think is there mostly as a convenience.
but the loudness difference I dont get if those measurements are correct.
It must be the output impedance being high, they quote 2 ohm and 1 Ohm, but I doubt that.
From the charts, as the power goes up, so does distortion, so it may have the brute power, but gets dirtier as it goes up specially on low impedance loads, which EDXS is.
 

Somnium

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These are such good headphones sounds beautiful. Clarity is top notch, Sound stage is good too. Glad I got one of these as my first 2 good quality headphones. They also work well with element 3 dac / amp, so not huge power required to drive them.
 

odyo

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I have the EDXS.
I have connected it to Mojo classic (clips at 700mW), Hugo2 (just a little more power) and direct to two phones, a Huawei and an LG G6.
The phones were hopeless!
Mojo and Hugo2 can drive them, but at the upper part of their power, leaving enough headroom to guard against clipping and compression.
Bear in mind I use no EQ and no -ve preamp.
Which brings me to Mojo2! o_O
It has 4 band tone controls, and +18dB digital headroom.
If one can get away with that, no software EQ nor preamp settings would be needed.
My smartphone sounds like mono compared to zen stack. Soundstage shrunken to center of my head. To be fair, the headphone i tried with is 250 ohm Beyer.
Yeah in 32 ohms right?
But can someone explain to me why it has less power from balanced than SE with low ohm cans?
I tried a balanced cable with the EDXS (returned cuz was silvercoated and it fucked the timbre, -Im getting a copper replacement soon)
But it played louder than the SE when I did some AB with the EDXS. According to those measurements it should be the other way round.
In any ways the balanced sounded a lot better. Better dynamics more control of bass, better seperation and imaging and bigger soundstage.
I think this comes down to the design of the can being balanced. So the balanced circuit is just better build than the SE which i think is there mostly as a convenience.
but the loudness difference I dont get if those measurements are correct.
It's at 16 ohm. It's more powerful at 32 ohm. Actually it's not easy to deliver high power at lower impedance. A lot of amps have this issue. I guess it's a power supply issue. At 300 ohm, this amp is veery powerful but at 16 and 32 ohm, it's ordinary. @JohnYang1997 can answer this best. It's more current limited in balanced for low impedance load.
 

Makafuni

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My smartphone sounds like mono compared to zen stack. Soundstage shrunken to center of my head. To be fair, the headphone i tried with is 250 ohm Beyer.

It's at 16 ohm. It's more powerful at 32 ohm. Actually it's not easy to deliver high power at lower impedance. A lot of amps have this issue. I guess it's a power supply issue. At 300 ohm, this amp is veery powerful but at 16 and 32 ohm, it's ordinary. @JohnYang1997 can answer this best. It's more current limited in balanced for low impedance load.
I'm planning to replace it with an asgard 3 (if it ever becomes available again that is). It seems to be a really good match powerwise, also leaning to the warm side as I understand.

Any other good suggestions for this headphone in this price range? Was also looking at a topping l50 but I think it's too analytical.

And do you know why the balanced output is louder than SE with the EDXS when it has lower poweroutput?
 

odyo

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I'm planning to replace it with an asgard 3 (if it ever becomes available again that is). It seems to be a really good match powerwise, also leaning to the warm side as I understand.

Any other good suggestions for this headphone in this price range? Was also looking at a topping l50 but I think it's too analytical.

And do you know why the balanced output is louder than SE with the EDXS when it has lower poweroutput?
As far as i understand, it's because unity gain is 4V instead of 2V in balanced so you get different loudness but if you push the max loudness before clipping you will see SE will go louder before clip.

index.php

index.php


You can see here that it clips at 12db gain in SE out but it clips at 6db gain in BAL out.


This dac amp combo look quite nice on paper. Let's hope Amir review it. Asgard 3 is still in stock afaik.

I don't know if L50 is really analytical. Try volume matching when comparing outputs and see if soundstage, bass etc really changes or not. At low volumes, i don't hear any difference between weak zen dac and powerful zen can. At high volumes, difference isn't drastic. Lots psychological factors at play when it comes to dacs and amps.
 
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