Help setting input sensitivity on Genelec speakers

[arthur92]

Hi all,

I have a pair of Genelec 1030A active speakers and a Nuprime HPA-9 preamp. The preamp have an output level of 6 Vrms and my Genelec have a variable input sensitivity from +6 dB to -6 dB.

I use this system to listen music only. As a newbie, i don’t know where to set the input sensitivity of the Genelec to match the output level of the Nuprime.

Which input sensitivity would you have choose in my situation ? Is there is a method of calculation to obtain a perfect match ?

Thanks a lot !
Regards
Arthur

 

[sergeauckland]

With any active 'speaker, I set the pre-amp volume control to about 2/3rd of the way round, then adjust the active 'speaker's volume controls so that it's then just a bit louder than I'm ever likely to want. That way, there's still some left in the pre-amp if a source happens to be especially quiet, but there's no chance of overloading the 'speakers.

There's no calculation possible, as the output of the pre-amp will depend on two factors:- how loud the music is, which varies track by track, and how loud one wants to play, which varies with personal circumstances. The way I do it allows adjustment for both.


S.

 

[arthur92]

With any active 'speaker, I set the pre-amp volume control to about 2/3rd of the way round, then adjust the active 'speaker's volume controls so that it's then just a bit louder than I'm ever likely to want. That way, there's still some left in the pre-amp if a source happens to be especially quiet, but there's no chance of overloading the 'speakers.

There's no calculation possible, as the output of the pre-amp will depend on two factors:- how loud the music is, which varies track by track, and how loud one wants to play, which varies with personal circumstances. The way I do it allows adjustment for both.


S.

Hi,

Thanks for your reply ! Can you explain me in which case i could overload the pre-amp or the speakers ? I used to have the speakers sensitivity to the maximum (-6 dB).

In this configuration, i can’t turn the pre-amp volume over 1 o’clock with a quiet piece of music. It gets too loud above that. Sometimes, i’m only at 1/3 on the volume and it play already very loud.

Am i overload something in this configuration to the point of introducing distorsion ?

I listen with an Apple computer and a turntable. Both sources have a typical and standard output level.

If i want to use 2/3 of the preamp volume, I have to reduce the speakers sensitivity to +6 dB.

 

[sergeauckland]

That's correct. The +6dB setting has less gain, so if the -6dB is too loud, then the +6dB setting is correct.

S.

 

[stoo23]

The +6dB setting has less gain, so if the -6dB is too loud, then the +6dB setting is correct

Hmm, perhaps being a bit 'Anal' here but that is Not 'Strictly' true.

The Genelec control is merely the Input Sensitivity, Not a Gain control.
In theory, this setting is used to match the 'input sensitivity' of the Genelec to the connected Source.

It has a Balanced input and as it would in many circumstances be used connected to Professional products and levels, not Consumer levels, it would probably be expecting an input of; +4dBu = 1.228V RMS
Most Professionally 'Aimed' products with Balanced XLR connectors would have similar inputs, whereas most 'Consumer' unbalanced RCA style outputs are; -10dBV = 0.316V RMS.
Those "levels" are an average RMS level for program material at 'unity gain' within the device.
Peak levels can be 20dB or more above the average RMS level.
"Consumer" level of -10dBV equals -7.7825dBu, so it is 11.7825dBu (about 12dBu) less than "pro" level.

It is disappointing that there is such scant documentation regarding the "Nuprime HPA-9 preamp" and what there is is sadly severely lacking in any useful technical detail.
Perhaps the Genelec Input does adjust the Input Voltage, (although it Doesn't suggest it Does) but the ideal operational situation is to adjust the Input Sensitivity to allow you to arrive at the 'Nominal' operating voltage of 0dBu.

Sadly, without knowing the real details of the Genelec's amplifier details, (or it's Protection circuit) and ZERO useful information about the Pre-Amp, it is Difficult to suggest or arrive at a Truly 'Correct' setting.
Apologies for the slight 'rave, lol it comes from having to have setup Large Concert Systems where you need to extract Maximum performance Without Destroying Equipment It might just be me but I'd probably leave the Genelec set at the -6dBu or maybe 0dBu and simply adjust the PreAmp 'Knob' accordingly

 

[sergeauckland]

It is a gain control, insofar as it adjusts the difference between input volts and output volts. It may do this as a simple attenuator, or indeed acting on the feedback to adjust closed loop gain. We don't know, and for the purposes of this exercise, it doesn't matter. The point of my answer was to suggest a practical method and the rationale behind it for achieving what the OP required.

S

 

[arthur92]

Hmm, perhaps being a bit 'Anal' here but that is Not 'Strictly' true.

The Genelec control is merely the Input Sensitivity, Not a Gain control.
In theory, this setting is used to match the 'input sensitivity' of the Genelec to the connected Source.

It has a Balanced input and as it would in many circumstances be used connected to Professional products and levels, not Consumer levels, it would probably be expecting an input of; +4dBu = 1.228V RMS
Most Professionally 'Aimed' products with Balanced XLR connectors would have similar inputs, whereas most 'Consumer' unbalanced RCA style outputs are; -10dBV = 0.316V RMS.
Those "levels" are an average RMS level for program material at 'unity gain' within the device.
Peak levels can be 20dB or more above the average RMS level.
"Consumer" level of -10dBV equals -7.7825dBu, so it is 11.7825dBu (about 12dBu) less than "pro" level.

It is disappointing that there is such scant documentation regarding the "Nuprime HPA-9 preamp" and what there is is sadly severely lacking in any useful technical detail.
Perhaps the Genelec Input does adjust the Input Voltage, (although it Doesn't suggest it Does) but the ideal operational situation is to adjust the Input Sensitivity to allow you to arrive at the 'Nominal' operating voltage of 0dBu.

Sadly, without knowing the real details of the Genelec's amplifier details, (or it's Protection circuit) and ZERO useful information about the Pre-Amp, it is Difficult to suggest or arrive at a Truly 'Correct' setting.
Apologies for the slight 'rave, lol it comes from having to have setup Large Concert Systems where you need to extract Maximum performance Without Destroying Equipment It might just be me but I'd probably leave the Genelec set at the -6dBu or maybe 0dBu and simply adjust the PreAmp 'Knob' accordingly

Hello,

Thanks for your reply ! Regarding technical specificities of the Nuprime HPA-9 preamp, we know that his output level is 6 Vrms. This isn’t written on their website, but directly on the packaging. If i leave Genelec input sensitivity to the maximum (-6dB) i can’t turn the Nuprime volume knob over 1/3 with a regular piece of music without getting too loud sometimes. That the information that I can give you to deduce something from it.

The preamp is connected with RCA to XLR unbalanced cables.

 

[arthur92]

That's correct. The +6dB setting has less gain, so if the -6dB is too loud, then the +6dB setting is correct.

S.

Thanks ! The SPL is lower, the sound is more relaxed in this configuration and i can use more of the volume knob. Any chance to overload something at +6 dB regarding 6 Vrms output level of the preamp ?

 

[sergeauckland]

Thanks ! The SPL is lower, the sound is more relaxed in this configuration and i can use more of the volume knob. Any chance to overload something at +6 dB regarding 6 Vrms output level of the preamp ?

No, because in order to overload the 'speakers, you would have to turn the volume control to full with a loud source, and then you probably couldn't stay in the same room.

In normal use, by setting the sensitivity control to +6, you're ensuring a better range on the pre-amp's volume control, which is what you have found.

S.

 

[antcollinet]

Thanks ! The SPL is lower, the sound is more relaxed in this configuration and i can use more of the volume knob. Any chance to overload something at +6 dB regarding 6 Vrms output level of the preamp ?

Just follow @sergeauckland 's suggestion in post 2. It is good advice and will work well for you.

 

[dasdoing]

I would always go "from left to right" in a chain. everything at zero or minimum; then introducing gain from stage to stage until I have a little more than I need.

 

[stoo23]

Knowing how many volts the Genelecs would like to see for rated Output prior to the Protection kicking in could help as well.
I must admit I'm intrigued What or Who started this New 6v bandwagon
I have spent years setting stuff up and operating at 'Unity Gain'.

Exacting Levels are very important, when you are Recording stuff, not merely Listening to it

 

[sergeauckland]

^v

I must admit I'm intrigued What or Who started this New 6v bandwagon

6V is near enough +18dBu, which is the EBU standard for 0dBFS converted to analogue. It is 10dB above peak level in the UK, 12dB above peak level in most of Europe.

Older analogue equipment generally (but not always) had +20dBu (8V) as the clipping level, providing 12dB headroom above peak level in the UK, 14dB headroom in most of Europe.

S.