Have 4XX, upgrade to Sundara?

[ngs428]

I am EQing to Oratory settings. Is there enough of a difference between the 2 to warrant an upgrade?

Source: Topping L30/E30

I see the XS is out on the horizon (potentially) in the US. But that is closer to $500. Sundara is $300 open box.

Edit: added more detailed info below:

Preferred tonal balance - Tonally balanced, accurate with a slight bass bump

Preferred music genre(s) - 90's Alternative Rock, Classic Rock (70's)

Past gear experience - Current Headphones: 6XX, X2HR, HE 4XX, Meze 99 Noir.

 

[Rayman30]

What type of music do you listen to?

 

[GaryH]

I am EQing to Oratory settings. Is there enough of a difference between the 2 to warrant an upgrade?

No. In fact, post-EQ the Sundara will probably have higher distortion in the bass due to its lower stock response there which needs more boosting, and already relatively high stock bass distortion for a planar (compare with the HE400i which likely uses the same/similar driver as the HE4XX). Note Oratory's default EQ for the Sundara doesn't even fully bring its response up to the Harman target in the sub-bass, I suspect for the above distortion reason.

 

[ngs428]

What type of music do you listen to?

Added to the first post

 

[ngs428]

No. In fact, post-EQ the Sundara will probably have higher distortion in the bass due to its lower stock response there which needs more boosting, and already relatively high stock bass distortion for a planar (compare with the HE400i which likely uses the same/similar driver as the HE4XX). Note Oratory's default EQ for the Sundara doesn't even fully bring its response up to the Harman target in the sub-bass, I suspect for the above distortion reason.

Thanks for the reply. I did notice that when I was looking at the FR graph post EQ for the Sundara. Sub bass was further from target than the 4XX. That would be a big deal for me, since I am a sub bass fan.

So the HE400i would be the most similar to the 4XX? I wasn’t sure which one it was designed off of.

 

[Rayman30]

I have owned HE4XX, Sundara (2020) and now Ananda.

Il keep it simple, the Sundara lack the fun bassy (almost boxy) sound of the HE4XX, this will immediately come across as less fun and less engaging. The stock Sundara sound signature is also a lot brighter than the HE4XX, so definitely EQ it down.

My opinion on music genres these cans excel at when both EQd.

Classic Rock - Sundara
Pop - Sundara
Rock and metal - HE4XX
Techno and Dance - HE4XX
Live performances - Sundara
Accoustic - Sundara
Rap - HE4XX

Your getting a different tuning and much better build quality, but its questionable if the drivers are any better. They both present music in a different way.

 

[ngs428]

I have owned HE4XX, Sundara (2020) and now Ananda.

Il keep it simple, the Sundara lack the fun bassy (almost boxy) sound of the HE4XX, this will immediately come across as less fun and less engaging. The stock Sundara sound signature is also a lot brighter than the HE4XX, so definitely EQ it down.

My opinion on music genres these cans excel at when both EQd.

Classic Rock - Sundara
Pop - Sundara
Rock and metal - HE4XX
Techno and Dance - HE4XX
Live performances - Sundara
Accoustic - Sundara
Rap - HE4XX

Your getting a different tuning and much better build quality, but its questionable if the drivers are any better. They both present music in a different way.

Thanks for the response. Kind of a mixed bag for both. How does the Ananda stack up? I was looking at them as a higher priced alternative, but the review here was not too favorable.

Edit: found your post here. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...an-sundara-vs-ananda-layman-comparison.22535/

 

[Rayman30]

Thanks for the response. Kind of a mixed bag for both. How does the Ananda stack up? I was looking at them as a higher priced alternative, but the review here was not too favorable.

The reviews here will show objective data such as distortion levels, frequency response, group delay so on and so fourth. In my experience, a lot of these things are not hearable to the average person, our ears are not scientific instruments. I have not found a way to use the objective data to explain why I hear more details on the Ananda than I do on the HE4XX, it does not seem quantifiable, but also I don't think its my imagination either, could driver size, enclosure size I am not sure.

I really enjoy all three honestly, just for different things. The Ananda's have a large soundstage, immense detail and imaging but can be thin and brittle on certain tracks, its not a warm headphone, and neither is the Sundara. If analytical detail is what you are after then the upper model Hifiman's deliver that well. I swap between HD-650 and Ananda, one is large and detailed, one is intimate and warm, they compliment eachother very well, and I have not pulled the trigger on other headphones because I am very satisfied, though I have been tempted by Aeon Noire and LCD-X.

You may want to take a look at the Dan Clark Audio Aeon RT, its both different and likely technically superior to the HE4XX as well, what you notice is going to be mostly sound signature and presentation, its difficult to know if you can truly hear the improved technicalities, but maybe something different entirely may be what the doctor ordered. I would replace the HE4XX anyway because they have terrible longevity.

 

[thewas]

I have owned HE4XX, Sundara (2020) and now Ananda.

Il keep it simple, the Sundara lack the fun bassy (almost boxy) sound of the HE4XX, this will immediately come across as less fun and less engaging. The stock Sundara sound signature is also a lot brighter than the HE4XX, so definitely EQ it down.

My opinion on music genres these cans excel at when both EQd.

Classic Rock - Sundara
Pop - Sundara
Rock and metal - HE4XX
Techno and Dance - HE4XX
Live performances - Sundara
Accoustic - Sundara
Rap - HE4XX

Your getting a different tuning and much better build quality, but its questionable if the drivers are any better. They both present music in a different way.

Have you tried equalising all 3 to the same target and then comparing them? Would be interesting to see how different they sound in this case to you.

 

[Rayman30]

Have you tried equalising all 3 to the same target and then comparing them? Would be interesting to see how different they sound in this case to you.

I did not have all 3 at the same time sadly, while I compared the Sundara to the Ananda I did not compare them directly with the HE4XX. I am going off memory. I used Oratory's EQ settings for all 3 cans.

 

[GaryH]

Thanks for the reply. I did notice that when I was looking at the FR graph post EQ for the Sundara. Sub bass was further from target than the 4XX. That would be a big deal for me, since I am a sub bass fan.

So the HE400i would be the most similar to the 4XX? I wasn’t sure which one it was designed off of.

Yes (incidentally the old pre-2020 earpad version of the Sundara is quite similar too):

 

[ngs428]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I don’t see enough here to warrant double+ the cost for the Sundara. I will be sticking with my 4xx with eq to Harmon via Oratory1990.