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Extreme Snake Oil

Killingbeans

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Most of the stuff in this thread reminds more of Merda d'artista.

Some of it is so stupid, that I can only imagine the manufacturers do it on purpose, to see how ridiculous a product they can make, before people refuse to buy it.
 

mhardy6647

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I think it's safe to assume ;) that there are some "audiophile" products that represent, in essence, what at used to be called performance art.

Machina Dynamica fairly leaps to mind. I think it's a put-on, and Geoff Kaitt (who is quite active, somewhat enigmatically but often very humourously, on audioasylum) is a type of Andy Kaufman. Or maybe not. :cool:

The frat boys at Schiit are, I posit, sometimes guilty of this, too.

321schitt.bac.jpg


I am pretty darned sure that their flimsy, fiddly, bubblegum, Scotch tape, and sewing thread turntable product, the SOL (Schiit Outta Luck!) was their metaphorical Three Stooges two-finger poke into the eyes of the of the vinylista, perhaps (perhaps!?) inspired by that silly and too-often reposted cartoon from The New Yorker:

I.e., this one
b27dcb7a032184951f287de69c6fd63f.jpg

I am actually hoping that the brain-numbingly silly Hafler Circuit/Dolby ProLogic retread (leavened by some "sonic holography" headphone wiring tricks), Schiit's Syn, is another, similar knee slapper aimed at multichannel hysterica (and/or multichannel hysterics). If it isn't -- shame on Schiit! :)

...Oh yeah, and it won’t become a paperweight when standards change. Head exploded? That’s OK. We’ll break it down...
Forget worrying about whether your surround works with the latest standards or if you’ve spent enough Sundays tweaking umpteen 31-band EQs and uploading the latest room correction files because you moved a chair...Syn isn’t like any other surround processor. It’s not digital. It supports no standard. Its all-analog processing doesn’t use any steering. It was developed by producing a simple matrix prototype, then tweaking it with analog computing techniques until it provided enjoyable, realistic results...

What's the name of this company again?
oh... yeah. Heh-heh-heh.
;)
 
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MarkS

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No benefit to you; to others it may have a quality feel or look that they like or a name they are fans of. I see nothing wrong with catering to a market that puts a lot of value in the name, look and feel of a product and is willing to pay for exclusivity. As long as it functions well enough within the audible range, or in some cases even adds things that the buyer prefers to the sound.

People buy things like watches and cars based on looks and brand name all the time. Sometimes they get ones that perform well, sometimes not.
...
There are few interests or hobbies that I'm aware of where so many people judge so many others for wanting something different than what they want and judge companies so harshly for giving it to them.
I think the key difference in audio compared to, say, watches, is that the audio companies claim to be giving better sound, whereas the high-end watch companies do not claim to be giving better time-keeping. Everyone in the high-end watch world knows perfectly well that their Pateks and Breguets keep time less accurately than a $10 quartz watch from the Dollar Plus store. But almost nobody in high-end audio knows that their Cardas or Shunyata speaker cable is no better than zip cord from that same Dollar Plus.
 

Andysu

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373415991_1738117246648811_1554106832956366235_n.jpg
 

srkbear

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No benefit to you; to others it may have a quality feel or look that they like or a name they are fans of. I see nothing wrong with catering to a market that puts a lot of value in the name, look and feel of a product and is willing to pay for exclusivity. As long as it functions well enough within the audible range, or in some cases even adds things that the buyer prefers to the sound.

People buy things like watches and cars based on looks and brand name all the time. Sometimes they get ones that perform well, sometimes not.

The purpose of clothes are protection from the environment and covering, anything that is more expensive than a couple dollars would be snake oil. A $100 shirt???

There are few interests or hobbies that I'm aware of where so many people judge so many others for wanting something different than what they want and judge companies so harshly for giving it to them.

For perspective someone paid $120,000 for this:
View attachment 310384
Wow. No offense intended, but I think that’s a pretty boorish and frankly cringeworthy assessment of modern art—which despite the fact that you think you could think up these cheapo works all by yourself, is about something a whole lot more significant, sophisticated and complex than what’s at work over at Chord—with their charging $14,000 in 2023 for a mass-produced eight year old DAC/amp combo with 2015’s digital audio technology, and one that measures worse than today’s $350 SMSL at that.

I’m guessing that by your definition, the obsolete DAVE, and the Hugo, with its insultingly outdated micro USB ports, justify their price points as “luxury items”, no different than a Ming vase or a Fabergé egg? That’s your understanding of how this phenomenon works, based on your example up there? You know, the one you scoff at as a $120,000 banana taped to a wall, that who knows what fool would pay for—because please, what does the Guggenheim know about Maurizio Cattelan’s conceptual art piece depicting a humorous indictment of our current state of global trade? What do you proudly display on your walls at home, Farrah Fawcett’s poster? One of those pretty Monet or Klimt prints they sell at college book shops?

The thing about those “luxury” purchases you’re referring to to justify everyone’s right to spend their money on the finer things, is that brands like Rolex, Armani and Ferrari earned their blue chip reputations and the right to charge ritzy prices because they built that reputation on integrity, and by producing the finest quality wares one can buy—that are as sophisticated in their design and build quality as they are in their aesthetics. They earned the right to charge those prices. In the auto industry, you can’t slap a $50,000 price tag on a Yugo and expect it to sell as a luxury indulgence, even if you make it look snazzy. People can tell the difference.

But in the audiophile industry, where most folks (mostly men, go figure) are so preposterously gullible and oblivious to cognitive bias that a brand like Chord or PS Audio can pull off exactly that—put out something that looks like a toy, weighs a ton, and performs not a micron beyond than the limitations of the human ear—then write some florid marketing copy full of made up science, prop up some suitably professorial-appearing shill to repeat it officiously and endlessly, then price it arbitrarily at 200 times the overhead cost and magically make it a “luxury” investment based on price and price alone. And all those suckers over at that other forum will aspire to part ways with thousands of dollars of hard-earned cash, year after year past launch, even if it’s a digital product with a short lifespan.

You are aware that DACs are just computers right? Know anybody that would pay $14,000 for the TOTL tower PC from 2015? You think those folks buying Chord or PS Audio are being sophisticated consumers (as opposed to those suckers over at the Guggenheim or the Art Basel in Miami), by paying a fortune for average gear shoved into a shiny package, that has only achieved exclusivity because few can afford it? I dunno, personally I aspire towards luxury items that reek of quality inside and out, and that last a lifetime—but I guess it’s all a matter of taste, or at least the lack of it.

Apologies for the snarky response my friend, but your analogy was an unfortunate one—so much so that I’m left to wonder what attracts you to ASR to begin with? The whole ethos here is about poking holes in many of the very brands Google Bard came up with for me up there. A few of them are the real deal, but they ALL sell their feloniously-priced wares based on lies and manipulation—which is the absolute antithesis of the values of the luxury brands you based your thesis on. And based on how long you’ve contributed to this site, I think you know better—I’ve read and admired many of your contributions on here, and with this one I think you’re arguing for the mere sake of it. You CAN’T actually believe this.

And as for this:

“There are few interests or hobbies that I'm aware of where so many people judge so many others for wanting something different than what they want and judge companies so harshly for giving it to them.”

If you feel that way, what on earth are you doing on this “snake oil” thread, which is the very definition of doing exactly what you’re indicting here? Are you on the level or pulling our legs?
 
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srkbear

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I'll bet that that perishable artwork no longer looks the same today. May it was sold as slomo performance art--you gits to watch it rot.
The banana is replaced multiple times per day, and by all means, I beg of you to delete this post, at least until you’ve done your homework here. The internet is indeed forever…
 

ta240

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TLDR anything but the last paragraph, but enjoy the banana and all it contributes to your world.

I'm against products that claim they do something but don't. Example: lotion you put on the front of an amp to improve the sound (or is that a form or art?). I find those entertaining to read about.

I'm not against products that do what they say but cost a lot to do it.
I find humor in the deep bitter hatred people have for expensive audio products that work and the companies that the money goes to. I'll get banned if I go into the things I find repulsive about where some of the money ends up on many of these 'cheap' products. Which is a bit ironic considering the level of pure hate that is leveled at Chord, Pass Labs etc. for making products that people enjoy listening to. I know somewhere someone is shaking as they yell at the scree "That isn't how the artist intended it to be heard!!!" :)
 

srkbear

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TLDR anything but the last paragraph, but enjoy the banana and all it contributes to your world.

I'm against products that claim they do something but don't. Example: lotion you put on the front of an amp to improve the sound (or is that a form or art?). I find those entertaining to read about.

I'm not against products that do what they say but cost a lot to do it.
I find humor in the deep bitter hatred people have for expensive audio products that work and the companies that the money goes to. I'll get banned if I go into the things I find repulsive about where some of the money ends up on many of these 'cheap' products. Which is a bit ironic considering the level of pure hate that is leveled at Chord, Pass Labs etc. for making products that people enjoy listening to. I know somewhere someone is shaking as they yell at the scree "That isn't how the artist intended it to be heard!!!" :)
Sir, I do not usually provoke contention on here, but I genuinely found your post condescending and offensive. Your decision to dismiss my response doesn’t mitigate that.

You‘re absolutely entitled to be respected for not finding satirical, conceptual or iconoclastic art suitable for your tastes. But before you’re gonna glibly toss off the value of one of the works of an important, influential and internationally recognized artist, one who has passionately dedicated a life towards the mastery of an artistic discipline of any kind, you better damn well do your homework first on the meaning and history behind it—if you don’t want to look like a hayseed fool, that is.

I find it equally distasteful that you would employ such a device to justify charlatans like PS Audio’s schemes to rob susceptible consumers blind under some bizarre pretense that they’re acquiring a “luxury” indulgence. Luxury brands are defined by the utmost adherence to peerless quality through and through—they aren’t sub-par performing DACs that acquired their reputations based on exclusive price points alone. Their success is predicated on doing the job adequately enough to not suck in a detectable way. They are not luxuries, they are rip offs for show offs.

I playfully posted a little benign contribution to this thread, and you launched into a defense of ostentatious tastes in a tone that was such a combination of condescension, hypocrisy and classism that I’m surprised the gods didn’t make your nose light up, so that people could line up taking turns punching it. I have admired many of your contributions on here so I’m going to chalk this one up to an outlier with no bad intentions, in the spirit of peace. If you would ever consider devoting a minute to the life of the artist you slandered, that would be nice. You can find a bit here.
 

pkane

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You‘re absolutely entitled to be respected for not finding satirical, conceptual or iconoclastic art suitable for your tastes. But before you’re gonna glibly toss off the value of one of the works of an important, influential and internationally recognized artist, one who has passionately dedicated a life towards the mastery of an artistic discipline of any kind, you better damn well do your homework first on the meaning and history behind it—if you don’t want to look like a hayseed fool, that is.

That taped banana piece is so out of date... I wouldn't pay more than $100k for it, myself. Here's the latest masterpiece, much more provocative, imbued with deep meaning and conjecture about the meaning of life, and presenting the juxtaposition of what is and what might've been.

30acwiyutp341.jpg
 

srkbear

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That taped banana piece is so out of date... I wouldn't pay more than $100k for it, myself. Here's the latest masterpiece, much more provocative, imbued with deep meaning and conjecture about the meaning of life, and presenting the juxtaposition of what is and what might've been.

30acwiyutp341.jpg
Hopefully you didn’t go out of your way to actually create that yourself in the service of what is essentially a fart joke—you’re somebody whose comments I’ve found invaluable as well, what the hell is going on on this thread? Do either of you goons have any insight into the contradiction involved with purportedly having a passionate respect for music as an art form, while being so tediously clueless about another?

It’s at considerable expense of spirit that I have to inform you both that the stupid banana piece was a minor, light-hearted send up of the empty-headedness of art world commerce and outlandish pricing, and the artist just about fell over laughing at what the damn thing sold for—it nailed his ironic point for all time. So his joke is on you, “dudes”.

Now that we’ve demonstrated what a little education can do, below are a few examples of the artist’s legitimate work, which were part of a scathing 9/11 memorial installation depicting the senseless loss of life that day. It was internationally acclaimed, deservedly so. Like, you know, the stupid banana guy actually crafted these pieces himself, in a studio, with massive engineering and construction skills, on top of a fricking devastating vision for powerful, gut-wrenching imagery. I know, because I was at the exhibit, and people were sobbing standing beside these harrowing images towering over them. Just regular people, not dimwitted “artistes”.

But I’m thinking it might have been a bit too advanced for you guys—probably best that you stayed home to watch NFL replays. Sorry, no high fives or beer kegs at the exhibit.

Thank you both for allowing me to narrate your cringeworthy stand up routines here for future generations to look upon with pity until the Universe ends. If ya’ll are done, you might want to revisit my original objection to the post, which was the bizarre idea that average audiophile gear packaged into shiny objects and sold for a fortune is somehow equivalent to aspiring to own a Porsche, an Ebel platinum watch or a “$100 shirt” (about that, just about all I own are $100 shirts, since I have a big boy job, and have saved tons of money buying Chinese gear that wipes the floor with PS Audio or Chord. If $100 shirts are your idea of extravagance, you might want to sit this one out).

Here’s your exhibit, I’m outta here to recharge my IQ.

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SIY

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Hopefully you didn’t go out of your way to actually create that yourself in the service of what is essentially a fart joke—you’re somebody whose comments I’ve found invaluable as well, what the hell is going on on this thread? Do either of you goons have any insight into the contradiction involved with purportedly having a passionate respect for music as an art form, while being so tediously clueless about another?

It’s at considerable expense of spirit that I have to inform you both that the stupid banana piece was a minor, light-hearted send up of the empty-headedness of art world commerce and outlandish pricing, and the artist just about fell over laughing at what the damn thing sold for—it nailed his ironic point for all time. So his joke is on you, “dudes”.

Now that we’ve demonstrated what a little education can do, below are a few examples of the artist’s legitimate work, which were part of a scathing 9/11 memorial installation depicting the senseless loss of life that day. It was internationally acclaimed, deservedly so. Like, you know, the stupid banana guy actually crafted these pieces himself, in a studio, with massive engineering and construction skills, on top of a fricking devastating vision for powerful, gut-wrenching imagery. I know, because I was at the exhibit, and people were sobbing standing beside these harrowing images towering over them. Just regular people, not dimwitted “artistes”.

But I’m thinking it might have been a bit too advanced for you guys—probably best that you stayed home to watch NFL replays. Sorry, no high fives or beer kegs at the exhibit.

Thank you both for allowing me to narrate your cringeworthy stand up routines here for future generations to look upon with pity until the Universe ends. If ya’ll are done, you might want to revisit my original objection to the post, which was the bizarre idea that average audiophile gear packaged into shiny objects and sold for a fortune is somehow equivalent to aspiring to own a Porsche, an Ebel platinum watch or a “$100 shirt” (about that, just about all I own are $100 shirts, since I have a big boy job, and have saved tons of money buying Chinese gear that wipes the floor with PS Audio or Chord. If $100 shirts are your idea of extravagance, you might want to sit this one out).

Here’s your exhibit, I’m outta here to recharge my IQ.

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I preferred R. Mutt.
 

antcollinet

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Here’s your exhibit, I’m outta here to recharge my IQ.
Well if the purpose of art is to create an emotional reaction (I believe it is), then that worked in spades.

Just seeing that first picture (just the picture) put the hackles on my neck up - visceral.
 

ocinn

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Came back to this thread to have a fun laugh about the newest snake oil discoveries and was confronted with a debate about bananas and high end art theory. What happened here?

Objectively pointless Luxury ≠ audio snake oil. Watches and art are subjective mediums. No watchmaker that is producing state of the art double 3D tourbillon movements is claiming they are more accurate than quartz.

Barnett Newman is not claiming Onement VI took more technical skill and artistry to paint than a Rembrandt.

Deception is the difference between artistic craftmanship (subjective medium) and audio snake oil (easily objectified). If a company says their fuse will make your system sound better, that is snake oil, since it objectively won’t. If an artist says a banana taped to the wall is good art, that is then substantiated by public response. You cannot point a measurement microphone at a canvas to quantify quality, however you can with audio.
 

Talisman

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Most of the stuff in this thread reminds more of Merda d'artista.
"Merda d'artista"
it is actually a true work of art, as the author actually wanted to criticize the system that gives a very high economic value to any bullshit done by an "artist", and from this point of view it has a real value as provocative social criticism and it is in all respects a noteworthy artistic performance.
 

Mart68

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"Merda d'artista"
it is actually a true work of art, as the author actually wanted to criticize the system that gives a very high economic value to any bullshit done by an "artist", and from this point of view it has a real value as provocative social criticism and it is in all respects a noteworthy artistic performance.
I get that but it isn't exactly a difficult target to hit, is it?

Despite my fancy education I'd rather drink beer and watch NFL than go round a modern art gallery. Not making any excuses for that.

Rather have the Farrah Fawcett poster on the wall than some conceptual art. Although If we're going to be picky I preferred Jacyln Smith.
 

pkane

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Hopefully you didn’t go out of your way to actually create that yourself in the service of what is essentially a fart joke—you’re somebody whose comments I’ve found invaluable as well, what the hell is going on on this thread? Do either of you goons have any insight into the contradiction involved with purportedly having a passionate respect for music as an art form, while being so tediously clueless about another?

It’s at considerable expense of spirit that I have to inform you both that the stupid banana piece was a minor, light-hearted send up of the empty-headedness of art world commerce and outlandish pricing, and the artist just about fell over laughing at what the damn thing sold for—it nailed his ironic point for all time. So his joke is on you, “dudes”.

Now that we’ve demonstrated what a little education can do, below are a few examples of the artist’s legitimate work, which were part of a scathing 9/11 memorial installation depicting the senseless loss of life that day. It was internationally acclaimed, deservedly so. Like, you know, the stupid banana guy actually crafted these pieces himself, in a studio, with massive engineering and construction skills, on top of a fricking devastating vision for powerful, gut-wrenching imagery. I know, because I was at the exhibit, and people were sobbing standing beside these harrowing images towering over them. Just regular people, not dimwitted “artistes”.

But I’m thinking it might have been a bit too advanced for you guys—probably best that you stayed home to watch NFL replays. Sorry, no high fives or beer kegs at the exhibit.

Thank you both for allowing me to narrate your cringeworthy stand up routines here for future generations to look upon with pity until the Universe ends. If ya’ll are done, you might want to revisit my original objection to the post, which was the bizarre idea that average audiophile gear packaged into shiny objects and sold for a fortune is somehow equivalent to aspiring to own a Porsche, an Ebel platinum watch or a “$100 shirt” (about that, just about all I own are $100 shirts, since I have a big boy job, and have saved tons of money buying Chinese gear that wipes the floor with PS Audio or Chord. If $100 shirts are your idea of extravagance, you might want to sit this one out).

Here’s your exhibit, I’m outta here to recharge my IQ.

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I'm guessing you are taking this whole thread a bit too seriously. And yes, I still prefer a bananaed tape to a taped banana, it just better fits my sense of humor and inherent sarcasm. But I guess humor was not the point of anything you've posted here. Unless you find some of the above exhibits comedic? In which case we have wildly diverging sense of what's funny.
 

mhardy6647

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That taped banana piece is so out of date... I wouldn't pay more than $100k for it, myself. Here's the latest masterpiece, much more provocative, imbued with deep meaning and conjecture about the meaning of life, and presenting the juxtaposition of what is and what might've been.

30acwiyutp341.jpg
imbued and juxtaposition in the same sentence.
I salute you, sir.
:)

We have a good friend who was very "arty" as a young adult. As an example, she was into (as folks used to say) making her own, sometimes rather outrageous earrings. Mrs. H and I (who weren't yet married in those long-ago, hazy days) conspired to make her a pair of earrings from a pair of carefully, lovingly aged banana peels. After they'd matured to a rich black-brown, I lacquered them, Mrs. H added earring hardware, and we presented them to our friend as a gift.

She thought they were hideous.

Thus the vagaries of art.
 

Killingbeans

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"Merda d'artista"
it is actually a true work of art, as the author actually wanted to criticize the system that gives a very high economic value to any bullshit done by an "artist", and from this point of view it has a real value as provocative social criticism and it is in all respects a noteworthy artistic performance.

I know. That was my point.

It's possible that all of the snake-oil manufacturers are just completely delusional, but I'd like to imagine that some of them went "You wan't snake-oil? I'll give you f¤¤ing snake-oil!" A giant middle finger to the people who eats it all up. Although, it's far more likely that those who are aware of the stupidity of their own products, are only in it for profit.
 
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