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Extreme Snake Oil

Martin

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Since this has turned into a watch thread this one is only $31 million :eek::
most-expensive-watches-patek-philippe-grandmaster-chime-ref-6300A-010-luxe-digital%402x.jpg


And I thought audiophile cables were expensive...

Martin
 

rdenney

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I believe that part of the Submariner mystique is that the fictional James Bond supposedly had one. BBQing isn’t popular in the UK so he probably didn’t use it for that purpose.
The fictional James Bond hasn't worn a Sub since the deeps of time (Sean Connery). Since that time, it's been a Hamilton QED and a range of others, until Omega bought their way in. They've owned it ever since.

So, I'll bet that James Bond has sold more "Omeegas" than Rolexes. :)

Rick "who owns neither" Denney
 

rdenney

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Since this has turned into a watch thread this one is only $31 million :eek::
most-expensive-watches-patek-philippe-grandmaster-chime-ref-6300A-010-luxe-digital%402x.jpg


And I thought audiophile cables were expensive...

Martin
Absolutely not snake oil. Excessive, assuredly. Poor value? Well, that depends on how one judges value (particularly for a historical piece). But it does everything it claims to do, and does with with an extreme level of craft.

Rick "wondering if people know what 'snake oil' actually means" Denney
 

Victor Martell

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Absolutely not snake oil. Excessive, assuredly. Poor value? Well, that depends on how one judges value (particularly for a historical piece). But it does everything it claims to do, and does with with an extreme level of craft.

Rick "wondering if people know what 'snake oil' actually means" Denney
Well - is like "decimation" and "underrated" - do not really mean what many people think they mean - Even in my own post before re the Melco thing, I fully know that is not snake oil in the strict sense. It is the ridiculous price for the kind of function performed that makes it snake oil IN SPIRIT if not in the letter... IMHO

v
 

MarkS

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What about SINAD? Do we need electronics with a SINAD of over 120 dB? Amir sets his threshold at 115 dB, but I'd be willing to bet that even those with experience couldn't benefit from a threshold that high if tested blind.
No one can hear anything anywhere near -115dB. It's one of my pet peeves with ASR that technical improvements with no audible benefit are emphasized as much as they are.
Yet people sell their 118-dB SINAD DAC to buy a 122-dB SINAD DAC. Why? Sheer appreciation for what it takes to attain that level of performance. That appreciation is part of the hobby.
Ah, no. 99% of people buying a new DAC think it actually sounds better. This might go down to 50% for ASR members.
Does this need justification? I think many here believe it does
I don't think it needs justification, but I do think it needs honesty.
And so it is with dive watches. I do swim in my divers, but I don't dive and never have. I still like to have a few dive watches in my collection, for the sheer appreciation of the engineering
Hey, me too! (I am Avo at WUS.) But I do know that my ~20 or so mechanical watches are all less accurate than the $20 quartz I could buy at the drugstore, and that 200m WR is easy (every G-shock with its plastic case has it). I dislike the attitude that mechanical watches are "better" when, in fact, they are demonstrably worse at their primary function (measuring time). I still love them, I just have no illusions about what they are, which is nostalgia for anachronistic tech + jewelry.
 

rdenney

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...

Hey, me too! (I am Avo at WUS.) But I do know that my ~20 or so mechanical watches are all less accurate than the $20 quartz I could buy at the drugstore, and that 200m WR is easy (every G-shock with its plastic case has it). I dislike the attitude that mechanical watches are "better" when, in fact, they are demonstrably worse at their primary function (measuring time). I still love them, I just have no illusions about what they are, which is nostalgia for anachronistic tech + jewelry.
My Ulysse Nardin Marine Chronometer (cal. UN118) has been running within 15 seconds/month, which is the standard performance for quality quartz movements. But that is very much the exception. All my chronometer-rated watches do meet chronometer requirements, though (-4/++6 seconds per day in each of five positions and two temperatures).

I never claim that a mechanical watch is better. But if I'm interested in mechanical watches because of my interest in how they are made, a quartz watch simply won't do.

Rick "whose quartz watches often get less use because their %&$*&%! batteries are dead" Denney
 

rdenney

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Well - is like "decimation" and "underrated" - do not really mean what many people think they mean - Even in my own post before re the Melco thing, I fully know that is not snake oil in the strict sense. It is the ridiculous price for the kind of function performed that makes it snake oil IN SPIRIT if not in the letter... IMHO

v
Let's understand: Patek Philippe does not sell that complicated watch at all these days, but if they did, it would not be $31M. This particular watch was one of eight that used that movement and the only one in a steel case. But the price that was paid for it was not set by Patek, it was the price multiple bidders ran it up to in a public auction, because they knew there would never be another one. It was expensive for precisely the same reason a Picasso is expensive (and people don't spend millions on a Picasso just because the art "moves" them). The other seven examples sold originally for far less, under different market conditions.

I would have a hard time believing the bidders in those auctions thought they were getting anything even slightly different than what they got, and their reason for buying it had little to do with function. It has to do what their appreciation for what it takes to make a mechanical watch that complicated, and also that beautifully made, and their desire to own a watch of that uniqueness and complexity from one of the foremost watch companies in the world. I am certain that the bidders were highly qualified on the topic in addition to being wealthy.

Snake oil is not about being expensive at all, let alone ridiculously expensive. It's about worthless crap being sold to the unwary on the basis of false claims. Actually "snake oil," as hawked by traveling con artists in the 19th Century, sold for relatively small sums so that people of little means could afford it. Wealthier people were more wary of such scams and were also more able to enforce their revenge when the placebo effect wore off and buyers realized they'd been conned.

A $28,000 power cord is snake oil--it provides absolutely nothing of value. It is not a complex product, it does not require a craftsperson with decades of experience to make, it is not made in any way that would limit its availability, and the company making it has no heritage for consistently producing products of high quality. This Patek is no more accurate than any other good watch of whatever technology, but keeping time simply is not it's reason for existence.

Rick "snake oil is not about high prices, but rather about false claims of efficacy" Denney
 

Ken1951

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Never going to dive, don't own a plane or know how to fly. Bought a Breitling SuperOcean 20 years ago because my wife bought a Breitling Lady J a few years earlier and I liked the way it looked and the price was decent. I do like to snorkel and would have done more recently if possible, and plan to return to the Caymans as soon as it's possible.

Oh, and that last photo - those cables look like something my kids played with 30 or so years ago!
 

Victor Martell

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Snake oil is not about being expensive at all, let alone ridiculously expensive. It's about worthless crap being sold to the unwary on the basis of false claims. Actually "snake oil," as hawked by traveling con artists in the 19th Century, sold for relatively small sums so that people of little means could afford it. Wealthier people were more wary of such scams and were also more able to enforce their revenge when the placebo effect wore off and buyers realized they'd been conned.

A $28,000 power cord is snake oil--it provides absolutely nothing of value. It is not a complex product, it does not require a craftsperson with decades of experience to make, it is not made in any way that would limit its availability, and the company making it has no heritage for consistently producing products of high quality. This Patek is no more accurate than any other good watch of whatever technology, but keeping time simply is not it's reason for existence.

Rick "snake oil is not about high prices, but rather about false claims of efficacy" Denney

Dear Rick "I man-explain" Denney

Sure. you are right.

v
 

Mart68

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'Cable Cooker'

''Periodic cooking-and-listening tests are essential to determine the optimal conditioning time for each design. For instance, if you cook a new interconnect for 24 hours, listen to it briefly, then give it another 6 to 8 hours on the Cooker.

Repeat this cycle of cooking and listening until you find little or no improvement from the previous test. At that point the cable is probably fully conditioned. Cables that have been in a system for quite some time can improve greatly with a 24 to 36 hour recharge on the Cooker… with speaker cables and power cables, sometimes a bit more…

A"periodic recharge" of a system's cabling every 3 or 4 months insures that a system will be at its optimum performance level… Conditioning is not a one-time phenomenon.

Cables also need to settle in after a bout of cooking. ''


 

Killingbeans

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That PC enclosure fan with red LEDs is a con-man stroke of genius. Really makes people think something's cooking.
 

Somafunk

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The amount of utter bullshit quackery reported through that shill website (positive feedback) is astounding, the only thing “cooking” is their bank balance for reviewing such nonsensical products
 

Somafunk

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Is that a euphemism for talking out of their arse?
 

EB1000

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A $1600 audiophool-grade 2.2uF capacitor:

 

Doodski

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A $1600 audiophool-grade 2.2uF capacitor:

Hmmz..lol
USD $1,599.95 USD $3,999.95 You Save USD $2,400.00 (60%)
(CAD $2,030.88 CAD $5,077.29)You Save CAD $3,046.41 (60%)
 
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