Great! Hope that some REL subs (most interested in S510/S812) will be finally tested too!
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Dual SVS SB-3000 or Dual PSA S1512 ?
- Thread starter syzygetic
- Start date
Great! Hope that some REL subs (most interested in S510/S812) will be finally tested too!
Since I am buying these all myself, REL subwoofers will not be part of it. If someone wants to send a REL, though…
Factolermentation
Member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2021
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Disclaimer: I own a PSA TV2112 and love it dearly. I personally would choose PSA over SVS but that is ENTIRELY subjective and I think SVS still makes great subs.
With regards to cross-shopping the PSA with the Hsu, I would honestly just reach out to Tom with PSA and give him your room details and ask what performance difference you'd see. He seems pretty real and although I'm sure he has bias toward his own subs I think he'd still give you a reasonable answer about the pros and cons of each.
With regards to cross-shopping the PSA with the Hsu, I would honestly just reach out to Tom with PSA and give him your room details and ask what performance difference you'd see. He seems pretty real and although I'm sure he has bias toward his own subs I think he'd still give you a reasonable answer about the pros and cons of each.
My limited experience has persuaded me of two things. Most importantly, that room integration (with dsp and at least two subs) has the biggest impact on sound. The second is that subs with dual opposing drivers seem a bit cleaner, but here my sample size is hopelessly small. Finally, I like my subs small, for esthetic reasons. Fortunately, even small subs are often good enough for pretty large scale orchestral music in larger listening rooms, and dual small subs even more so. Nuclear blasts are a different story.
Can't you get your house mouse to buy them for you?
nerdoldnerdith
Senior Member
Power Sound Audio uses pro audio drivers that are really designed to be used more like woofers rather than dedicated home theater subwoofers. They are excursion limited and are better at delivering high SPL in midbass rather than creating thunderous deep bass and ULF effects. They are great for great extremely clean, accurate bass, but run out of steam pretty early compared to real home theater subwoofers with a lot of xmax and lower tuning.
OP
syzygetic
Active Member
- Thread Starter
- #27
This is interesting, since specs are light on the actual woofer used in the SVS SB-3000 and the HSU ULS15 MK2. I can find the driver used in the PSA no problem, it's from B&C and sold on Parts Express, but does anyone know what SVS and HSU are using in their competitive models?
I would need to search through my emails but IIRC, I was told by SVS that their speakers are all designed in-house when I specifically asked the question.
More Dynamics Please
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I think you're confusing the fact that PSA uses pro audio drivers in their bookshelf and tower speakers, not their subwoofers. PSA subs go much lower than pro audio subs and are specifically designed for home theater use. In fact the top of the line PSA sub (TV42 Ipal with dual 21" woofers and 3,800 watts RMS) is rated for 11 Hz @ -3 dB with in-room extension to 8 Hz.
Ultrasonic
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I'm confident that if you try to come up with data to back up that claim you will fail, but please prove me wrong if you can.
The experience of every user I've seen, and my own, is very much NOT that PSA subwoofers demonstrate the limitations that you claim.
Ultrasonic
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I suspect the issue may be that the term 'pro audio driver' is not too specific. I believe this is the driver in my S1510 for example:
https://www.parts-express.com/Emine...56dc5db487e11eb836305520a180512&utm_source=CJ
I'm confident the more recent switch to B&C drivers has very much improved performance across the board, not reduced it. Tom Vodhanel simply would not have made the switch otherwise (and I've seen him post about the benefits of the improved driver performance elsewhere).
For anyone who doesn't know, Tom Vodhanel is the guy who designs PSA subwoofers, and was formally the 'V' of SVS.
nerdoldnerdith
Senior Member
https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/products/lf-driver/15-0/4/15ds115-4
This is the driver that goes into the S1512. It has 16mm of xmax. Not bad, but significantly less than what you'd get with a regular subwoofer. More importantly, look at the specs and parameters of the driver. It has a 4.5" voice coil designed to take a ton of power, which can only be delivered to the driver without bottoming it out at higher frequencies. If you model it in a box, it rolls off very high. B&C even specs it as only going down to 35Hz.
It is a beast of a driver, but it was really intended for a different use than home theater. That isn't to say it can't be used for that application; EQ makes a lot of things possible. I'm just saying that for the price it isn't the best driver for home theater where excursion and low frequency efficiency is sought.
Ultrasonic
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I meant data of actual subwoofer performance. As above, if there wasn't a performane advantage for the drivers being used, I'm confident they wouldn't be.
More Dynamics Please
Addicted to Fun and Learning
You are correct that technically speaking the B&C LF drivers used in PSA subs may be classified as pro drivers that trade off some low extension for greater SPL. It's certainly true that "pro driver" is a fuzzy term covering a wide range of performance and some will produce a balance of low extension and high SPL that will suit some home applications more than others.
Ultrasonic
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Checking the PSA website I'm not convinced you've got the right driver there actually. It doesn't match the picture you can see in the 'Components' tab of the following page:
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/s1512
Edit: hmm, actually, maybe it does
nerdoldnerdith
Senior Member
That's the one alright. Tom said so himself. It's also the best pro audio 15 on the market, so one would hope that it's the one.
As for data, what limit a subwoofer on the low end are the laws of physics. A driver with less excursion simply cannot move as much air as one with more. You can look at all of the CEA measurements done on subwoofers to see that they top out on the low end precisely where they run out of travel. This is true of all subwoofers, so one can predict with perfect confidence how much low end will come from PSA subwoofers just by looking at the specs of the drivers.
Ultrasonic
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I edited my post above while you were typing your reply
. My mistake. Tired after a long day!
Ultrasonic
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Power handling will matter too presumably, as displacement that can't be used isn't beneficial. Let's say you're right though - what would be your hypothesis for why the driver change was made? I'm genuinely struggling with why Tom would make the change, with associated price rises, if the resulting subwoofer performance was so compromised.
Ultrasonic
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I would really like to see some objective performance data for the newer PSA subwoofers but I've failed to find any when I've looked. Tom has also stopped putting it on the PSA website, arguing it causes him for hassle than it's worth when I've raised this with him on another forum.