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Denon x4700 + Emotiva xpa9 - HT Sounds seems bland

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#1
Hi,

So currently, ive got the denon x4700 in preamp mode into the Emotiva,
Speakers are :
kilpsch RP8000, rp-504, rp-402, 4 b&w cm35 atmos, 2x rel s5 and 1x rel t7.

Ive run audyssey etc and changed the usual before sending the config to the receiver.

My issue is that, firstly ive got to have the volume at about -10 to get “decent” experience. But at the same time i feel like there is something missing ( i know it sounds silly) but movies lack the sharp crispness ( if thats what one can call it )

certain scenes, like the race scene in ready player one, when he chucks his car and it transforms, the the audio is rather soft and bland as its changing.

I am not sure what i am missing . Ive run it both with reference and flat, And its changed it slightly but nothing to make me jump for joy.

Any Help be appreciated. I still have the option to swap it out for the x6700 but not sure again if this will be justified.

Thanks in advanced
 

Propheticus

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#2
Perhaps worth a try to limit Audyssey correction to somewhere between 300~500Hz or so. Depending on where the transition is not too extreme between corrected and uncorrected (i.e. not in the middle of a peak or dip)
This way you only correct room mode dominated issues (bass boominess). Ofc you also still profit from the time alignment ('distance') and volume offset correction.
I was never happy with the Audyssey result until I got the app and did this.
(Note these tweaks made in the app only apply to the reference setting and not the flat)
 

Koeitje

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#3
Do you have DRC on my accident?
 

amper42

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#4
Hi,

So currently, ive got the denon x4700 in preamp mode into the Emotiva,
Speakers are :
kilpsch RP8000, rp-504, rp-402, 4 b&w cm35 atmos, 2x rel s5 and 1x rel t7.

Ive run audyssey etc and changed the usual before sending the config to the receiver.

My issue is that, firstly ive got to have the volume at about -10 to get “decent” experience. But at the same time i feel like there is something missing ( i know it sounds silly) but movies lack the sharp crispness ( if thats what one can call it )

certain scenes, like the race scene in ready player one, when he chucks his car and it transforms, the the audio is rather soft and bland as its changing.

I am not sure what i am missing . Ive run it both with reference and flat, And its changed it slightly but nothing to make me jump for joy.

Any Help be appreciated. I still have the option to swap it out for the x6700 but not sure again if this will be justified.

Thanks in advanced
Did you use the Audyssey app when setting it up? If so, I would suggest turning off the Denon automatic BBC mid-range dip. I would also try the various DEQ settings from off to 0, +5, +10. DEQ can make a big difference with some speakers. The fact that you need to get to -10 for a decent experience suggests DEQ is probably off. With my Denon 4700 in preamp mode and a Purifi amp the Revel F328Be will rock the room at -20. I can't even imagine -10. :D
 

Chrispy

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#5
-10 is reasonably loud, more than I usually listen at. Is that where you normally listen or what are you getting at that volume you're not at others? What setup are you comparing your experience to? Was it in the same room? Can you post up what settings you're using other than reference/flat curves? DEQ? DynVol? Speakers set to small? What crossover?
 
OP
V
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Thread Starter #8
Did you use the Audyssey app when setting it up? If so, I would suggest turning off the Denon automatic BBC mid-range dip. I would also try the various DEQ settings from off to 0, +5, +10. DEQ can make a big difference with some speakers. The fact that you need to get to -10 for a decent experience suggests DEQ is probably off. With my Denon 4700 in preamp mode and a Purifi amp the Revel F328Be will rock the room at -20. I can't even imagine -10. :D
Thanks . Yep mid range comp is off. Not tried the DEQ as you suggested so will have a give that a go. Thanks
Yeah i excepted the same when i added the emotiva .
 
OP
V
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Thread Starter #9
-10 is reasonably loud, more than I usually listen at. Is that where you normally listen or what are you getting at that volume you're not at others? What setup are you comparing your experience to? Was it in the same room? Can you post up what settings you're using other than reference/flat curves? DEQ? DynVol? Speakers set to small? What crossover?
Thanks,

i guess thats what it needs to be turned up to, to get a somewhat decent experience. Ive got all the other Surround parameters off, dynvol and deq are also off. Deq makes a bit of a difference on, but nothing major. Ive run it both on ref, flat and audyssey off. With curtains at 500 and 22k . All speaker are small with cross overs at 100 for the fronts and 120’for the rest . After running rew i found those were sort of getting the better results.
 
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V
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Thread Starter #10
if i were to measure the voltage, at reference, out of say the front channel, what should i expect to be getting. ( with a multimeter) Wondering if maybe its just under powering the emotiva hence why it needs cranking to get it sounding ok. Or the amp maybe faulty .
 

amper42

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#11
Gain on this Emotiva is suppose to be 29dB.
https://emotiva.com/products/xpa-2-gen3

Is that the one you have? Turn on DEQ with a 5 setting and that usually offers much more kick at lower volumes. Shouldn't have an issue with a 29dB gain amp unless it's broken. :D

You could also try disconnecting the Emotiva and try using the internal Denon amps after running a new config with Audyssey and Denon Amp Assign.
 
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Thread Starter #12
Gain on this Emotiva is suppose to be 29dB.
https://emotiva.com/products/xpa-2-gen3

Is that the one you have? Turn on DEQ with a 5 setting and that usually offers much more kick at lower volumes. Shouldn't have an issue with a 29dB gain amp unless it's broken. :D

You could also try disconnecting the Emotiva and try using the internal Denon amps after running a new config with Audyssey and Denon Amp Assign.
Thanks . Its the xpa9 gen 3 . Yeah thats what i am thinking . Something is up with the amp
 

FrantzM

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#13
Get the Audyssey Smartphone/ Tablet App for $20. it is available for IOS and Android.
There is a good review of it by Amir. There are several threads on how to tweak it a bit more on AVSForum...
It usually provides better results than the AVR alone..

Peace.
 
OP
V
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Thread Starter #14
Get the Audyssey Smartphone/ Tablet App for $20. it is available for IOS and Android.
There is a good review of it by Amir. There are several threads on how to tweak it a bit more on AVSForum...
It usually provides better results than the AVR alone..

Peace.
Thanks . Ive got the app and have made all the possible adjustments. App does make a bit of a difference.
 
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#15
Well I'm going to be the bad guy and say what you don't want to hear. I would definitely do a check of the system direct from your 4700 and with the Emotiva added back. You might also want to turn Audyssey off entirely (Pure setting on the Denon) and see what an unadjusted signal sounds like. Your Klipsch speakers are just not that difficult a load, and the Denon should be capable of driving them by itself. It's possible that the Emotiva is just not making much change in your system. Yes, it may have better specs, but that doesn't mean you're going to hear a difference in your room.
 
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Thread Starter #16
Yeah, thanks. Another mate suggested the same. Will try that this weekend.
Thanks
 
OP
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Thread Starter #19
I actually meant the upper limit of the correction. A few posts down you say curtains at 500 and 22k. I actually propose using 0 to 500. (Yes. Really only the bass to low mid)
My Bad, thats what its on currently . What i meant was ive had it 0-500 and 0-22k .
 

Propheticus

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#20
If it turns out it's not your power amp:
Maybe we're overlooking something essential; the source.
Where do you play the movie from?

We should also probably first eliminate some basics before diving into all possible small settings.
i.e.
  • Are all speakers wired correctly? (to exclude inverse polarity cancellation) ... Audyssey should detect and warn you when a speaker is wired incorrectly.
  • Do the tweeters (still) work?
  • Is it only movies that sound 'wrong'? perhaps setting differences on the amp between your music and movie source could point to the culprit.
All this is pretty IT helpdesk style approach and perhaps we can skip some of the basic 'call script' questions. But to do that we need DATA!
Seeing your REW measurements would help spot obvious issues, and for some of the experts here even the less obvious.
 
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