(Denon AVR-X3700H) Getting conflicting advice

[shroddy9]

Thanks @amper42 I'll look into the Focal's and the Monoprice options.

Yeah look, the guy did tell me that without a dedicated Sub it'll never sound as good as it can - but just because of the large size of that living room (10500mm x 8000mm) one sub wouldn't be enough since there'd be so many dead spots, so I'd have to invest in two of them which could get quite costly. Again, the intention of that room isn't to crank an insane home theatre experience (since I'll have a dedicated theatre room for that) but rather to get respectable background music and sound from that TV in the room.

So without going down the expensive path of 2 x Subwoofers, he suggested the B&W's with their 8 inch woofers would do an ample job, albeit never to the quality of getting Subs of course.

 

[Chrispy]

I wouldn't expect any 8 inch driver, even duals, to be capable of good subwoofer duty myself. Maybe in a car or small room. My preference is anywhere between 12" to 24" drivers at this time

 

[shroddy9]

I like where your head's at, trust me

I'd even be happy to invest in a single sub for that room, but from what the store guy was telling me, it'd be a waste of money for a room that big, and would be a shame because you'd have so many dead spots in that sized room

 

[amper42]

I wouldn't expect any 8 inch driver, even duals, to be capable of good subwoofer duty myself. Maybe in a car or small room. My preference is anywhere between 12" to 24" drivers at this time

The bass that comes out of the 6" BMR monitors is amazing. I never would have guessed a bookshelf could produce bass flat down to 39Hz in my office. It beats most towers. The other bass monster is the Revel F328Be with three 8" drivers that can produce a strong 29Hz with major THUMP. They are monsters. Don't be surprised when an 8" quality, well designed speaker can provide an amazing bass response.

 

[shroddy9]

Dang @amper42 you've got good taste - $1000 aussie dollars each per Revel F382Be speaker.

This is where I'm honest and say I just don't have that kind of budget to spend - but to your point, at the rough price range of the B&W CCM382 (about $530 aussie for a pair) what would be a better choice? At least with respect to getting an overall better range of sound and better low ends?

 

[amper42]

Dang @amper42 you've got good taste - $1000 aussie dollars each per Revel F382Be speaker.

This is where I'm honest and say I just don't have that kind of budget to spend - but to your point, at the rough price range of the B&W CCM382 (about $530 aussie for a pair) what would be a better choice? At least with respect to getting an overall better range of sound and better low ends?

You could install a set of BMR monitors for $1700 and add a HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP Sub for $900. That would sound nice. Or if I was dead set on ceiling speakers I would listen to the Focal 300 ICW 8.

 

[shroddy9]

I'll check in with the local stores to see if they carry Focal so I can try to listen to these bad boys.

I'm a big fan of Focal - I put an entire Focal system into my old BMW 1 series and it sounded ridiculously better than any after-market system I'd ever listened to.

 

[shroddy9]

Sorry to go back again, but I just wanted to be absolutely 100% sure about something before I move on from it -

Whether I end up going with the B&W CCM382 or any other speaker, there's no reason why the AVR-X3700H couldn't power (or handle) 4 pairs of stereo speakers, right? I mean - again, not the GREATEST setup since you'd ideally want surround speakers, but it's still technically possible to work, right?

Some other guy on another forum is alluding to this not being possible.

Cheers

 

[Helicopter]

I love Focal too. If I were buying in wall speakers I would probably only consider Focal, JBL, and Revel. I would definitely skip B&W.

Agree the 3700 can handle this job with surround mode for the 6 and stereo for the other two. It is also a great choice as apre processor if you want to add some powerful amps like Hypex/Purifi later.

Also agree a distribution amp is better suited to the job, but it would likely be more expensive. You could get X2700H and a multi room amplifier and use the Denon pre outs from the start, but starting with the 3700 will save you money if you are happy with the result from its internal amps.

Also agree subs will give a big performance boost, and that all ceiling speakers won't be great anyway. Sounds fine for the use cases you describe. I have a couple passive in wall Dayton Audio 10 inch subs in my bedroom, and they work great, even hidden behind dressers. Of course big cube subs are way better.

 

[amper42]

Sorry to go back again, but I just wanted to be absolutely 100% sure about something before I move on from it -

Whether I end up going with the B&W CCM382 or any other speaker, there's no reason why the AVR-X3700H couldn't power (or handle) 4 pairs of stereo speakers, right? I mean - again, not the GREATEST setup since you'd ideally want surround speakers, but it's still technically possible to work, right?

Some other guy on another forum is alluding to this not being possible.

Cheers

If you use Multi-Channel Stereo mode and keep volumes at reasonable levels the Denon 3700 can certainly handle 4 pairs of stereo speakers. This setup will require one pair on fronts, surround, rear-surround and height terminals. The key will be keeping volumes at reasonable levels. I would place the AC Infinity MULTIFAN S7 on top of the Denon blowing air upward and away from the receiver. This setup keeps mine cool while staying quiet.

If you want to reach volumes louder than background music (over 85dB) I would encourage the use of preamp mode and external amps. The problem with preamp mode is it disables the Zone2 switch. I get around this by simply turning off the external amps I don't want playing if Zone2 was ever desired while Zone1 was off.

I use my Denon receiver in Multi-Channel Stereo mode a lot and really enjoy it. I have 5 speaker pairs on mine plus a center channel. It offers an immersive sound experience that's enjoyable.

 

[shroddy9]

@Helicopter wow, JBL over B&W? I honestly thought the B&W's were pretty awesome based off all the amazing reviews online about it. I'm actually starting to now look at Denon AVR-X4300H because of it's built-in Alexa functionality as a nice little bonus. Still undecided.

Thanks @amper42 I'm little nervous now though, since you reckon anything over "background noise" would probably need an external amp. I'd still like the ability to turn up the volume (even on just the 6 living room speakers) every now & then, would that be okay? Or did you mean if I was wanting to play out all 8 speakers at once?

 

[Helicopter]

@Helicopter wow, JBL over B&W? I honestly thought the B&W's were pretty awesome based off all the amazing reviews online about it. I'm actually starting to now look at Denon AVR-X4300H because of it's built-in Alexa functionality as a nice little bonus. Still undecided.

Thanks @amper42 I'm little nervous now though, since you reckon anything over "background noise" would probably need an external amp. I'd still like the ability to turn up the volume (even on just the 6 living room speakers) every now & then, would that be okay? Or did you mean if I was wanting to play out all 8 speakers at once?

B&W are often voiced for showroom sound, louder in the upper treble, that can fatigue in a domestic setting. JBL are normall neutral or have a little more bass than neutral, which can sound a little more manufactured than flat like Revel or Focal, but never annoys me too much.

I think you'll get decent volume in the room with 6 speakers. I would try it and see. U have a 120WPC rated Harman Kardon HK3770 stereo receiver running a transformer based multi room distribution system with 4 in wall speakers and 4 outdoor speakers. There is some loss in the transformers, so I am probably getting 20 WPC or so into 8 speakers. The ohtdoor speakers are pretty anemic, but OK for background music. A party speaker would have been a better choice. The in wall speakers can get loud in my 540 square foot room with a 12 inch subwoofer... so I most likely I think you will be fine with just an AVR. With 2700 or better, you have the option to add more amps and really crank it, but you should be happy without external amps.

Alexa is a big plus for me too. We have over a dozen devices in the system and an Ultra HD family music plan, so that integration is nice.

 

[shroddy9]

In the ideal setup, what AVR and dedicated Power Amp would you recommend without blowing the budget here?

i.e. would I be getting an AVR as well as a Power Amp hooked up with it? And if so, based on what I'm trying to do here (with the 6 living room speakers and 2 outdoors) what AVR and Power Amp would you get? Again, I don't want to be spending huge huge amounts here compared to what I was already quoted with just the X3700H (acknowledging though that it will be somewhat more expensive since the X3700H alone may not be the best solution)

 

[Helicopter]

In the ideal setup, what AVR and dedicated Power Amp would you recommend without blowing the budget here?

i.e. would I be getting an AVR as well as a Power Amp hooked up with it? And if so, based on what I'm trying to do here (with the 6 living room speakers and 2 outdoors) what AVR and Power Amp would you get? Again, I don't want to be spending huge huge amounts here compared to what I was already quoted with just the X3700H (acknowledging though that it will be somewhat more expensive since the X3700H alone may not be the best solution)

Not sure what is available in your market. One of the Niles or Russound 8+ channel amps would be great. You could get a March Audio (made in Australia!) P502 and run it in series-parallel.

I would definitely get the AVR first and see how it does on its own. Adding a power amp like those above would improve my performance in my 8 channel stereo setup considerably, but it is not even something I am considering. I rarely use the outdoor speakers, and the in wall speakers are loud enough not to be an issue. If I decided to increase outdoor power, I would probably go for portable bluetooth party speakers.

 

[shroddy9]

Alright so when you're running ONLY your 4 internal/in-wall speakers (leaving your 4 externals off) you get some great volume out of them though?

That's really all I want to be sure of - like you, we wouldn't be using the external speakers anywhere near as much as we'd use the internal 6 speakers, so as long as while only those 6 living room ones are on, I'd still want to be able to get decent volume out of them, more so than just "subtle background noise"

 

[amper42]

Alright so when you're running ONLY your 4 internal/in-wall speakers (leaving your 4 externals off) you get some great volume out of them though?

That's really all I want to be sure of - like you, we wouldn't be using the external speakers anywhere near as much as we'd use the internal 6 speakers, so as long as while only those 6 living room ones are on, I'd still want to be able to get decent volume out of them, more so than just "subtle background noise"

If you have ever listened at 85dB with a sound meter you will know it's hard to talk over that level of music. You can reach that level with the Focal in wall speakers and it will sound great without an external amp. For the install you describe I would go with the Denon 3700 or 4700. I would not consider the older Denon models as they don't offer preamp mode.

 

[Helicopter]

Alright so when you're running ONLY your 4 internal/in-wall speakers (leaving your 4 externals off) you get some great volume out of them though?

That's really all I want to be sure of - like you, we wouldn't be using the external speakers anywhere near as much as we'd use the internal 6 speakers, so as long as while only those 6 living room ones are on, I'd still want to be able to get decent volume out of them, more so than just "subtle background noise"

Yes, and my transformer setup always delivers less than 1/4 of a stereo input to each of the 8 speakers, so maybe 10% of the amp power. A 3700 will deliver 1/6 of the power to each of the 6 speakers, so it should do better per speaker, and you will have 6 rather than 4 of them. Even if you are running 8 speakers you should be fine. I really doubt you will have a problem unless you want to go way beyond the volume I can get away with when there is anyone else in the house.

 

[shroddy9]

Awesome - thanks for all the advice @Helicopter and @amper42 I think I'll go with just the x3700H for now

 

[eriksson]

These are 8 ohm speakers so not a problem. The week link will be the Denon's power supply if you are driving all speakers at loud levels for prolonged time. But It will protect it self and if this becomes a problem you can always add amps later.

I question the setup though, using only ceiling speakers.

 

[shroddy9]

Thank you @eriksson