Curious why not more reviews of Top Tier Gear (perceived anyway)

[fpitas]

Way I see it you are ice cold. If that's warm I am not to worried.

Totally chillin!

 

[Vacceo]

Not at all.
Why I am still waiting for my questions to be answered.
All you have done is hurl insults.
I would like to know what these so called standards are.
I will wait while you all call me names.

So called? They are quite easy to read. Amir states the methodology on his measurement threads.

 

[Geert]

I would like to know what these so called standards are

That question was already answered on the first page: "distortion and noise below the threshold of human hearing". It means an audio component is audible transparent when it does not add its own colouration to the source signal.

 

[JoeStrummer69]

The devices are tested

Is there more to that answer?

 

[JayGilb]

I am seeking objectivity and engineering. So are you the troll now?

Only a small percentage of devices are subjectively tested.
Most often Amir tests the devices and posts graphs and tables with the results and then a bare bones ranking gif is produced showing the device's rank among all other devices of the same class.
One must have a rudimentary understanding of the test results before they have any meaning. Members are welcome to ask questions about the results and they will be explained down to as simple of a level as possible. Once again, one must have a rudimentary understanding of the test results before they have any meaning.

No thesaurus is used, no flowery language produced. The review is nothing more than numbers translated into x/y graphs and charts.
The members then have any number of pages to talk among themselves about the test results.

If that rings your bell, then feel free to become a contributing member.

 

[fpitas]

They think all waveforms are composed of pure tones here. Just because some French guy said so hundreds of years ago.

 

[Vacceo]

That question was already answered on the first page: "distortion and noise below the threshold of human hearing". It means an audio component is audible transparent when it does not add its own colouration to the source signal.

The magic number is 115 db. Why? Because that number is guaranteed to be at an edge of human capacity that not even the absolute best trained listener would be able to distinguish it.

 

[Tom C]

The hard realities of audio reproduction are thoroughly explained here. For those that are able to accept them, the primary beneficiary is you, gentle reader. The world renowned experts here already know most of this stuff. They are simply kind enough to share their knowledge with the rest of us. Of course, we are all always learning from each other.
For those unable to handle the truth, suit yourself. It’s your money.

 

[Geert]

Okay. I will take your word for it

You don't have to take someone's word for it. There are a ton of reviews on this forum which show affordable hifi components can measure audible transparent.

If you want to question the validity of measurements there's this thread 'Master Thread: Are measurements Everything or Nothing?' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...are-measurements-everything-or-nothing.29062/

 

[fpitas]

I honestly would like to see more reviews of the ultra-high end stuff here. It still amazes me how bad some is.

 

[JoeStrummer69]

So called? They are quite easy to read. Amir states the methodology on his measurement threads.

Yes so called?
So it is to Amir's standard?
See how easy that was?
So it is just some bloke, they are not testing standards like I use, ANSI, ASTM, NLGI, ASME.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Not at all.
Why I am still waiting for my questions to be answered.
All you have done is hurl insults.
I would like to know what these so called standards are.
I will wait while you all call me names.

The standards as to whether something is good or not is how high fidelity the output is. Flat frequency response, low distortion, and low noise. There is plenty of gear that is simple audibly transparent without costing very much now. Unless gear offers useful features or maybe simply looks great or is a pleasure to use, there is no need for it to be expensive. In a few cases tested expensive gear isn't even particularly good. Amir will test anything you send him.

Once you know your $200 DAC sounds as good as your $2000 or $10,000 DAC there is nothing sonically to be gained by paying more. And yes the results are good enough for several products to indicate that. Items that have distortion at -120 db and noise lower than that. If they also have flat frequency response that is as good as it gets regardless of price. And before you wonder, plenty of people here have owned or heard and used some of that expensive gear. It isn't a case of a bunch of people who cannot afford or will not spend more than $200 and just wishing it was as good as it gets.

Now opinions and reviews done in most other parts of the internet are from uncontrolled, unmatched listening. You might wish to learn (or may already know) how prone to being fooled human hearing is in such conditions. Making such reviews and opinions somewhere between completely worthless and almost worthless. Carefully considered measurements and/or controlled listening comparisons are a more reliable consistent guide to what is really high fidelity.

 

[pau]

No better than the clowns at Audiogon.
Ask a few questions...Guess I will leave you Amazon Shoppers to it.

As a community The science folks are as hardheaded as any other. they cannot accept any other posibilities than theirs as a holy bible. You just need to skip the one sided minds that come forward questioning anyone that disagrees or questions with the current science bibble. Good thing is all the science is here freely shared and to learn your own pace. Once new methods is found the current science bible is written again im sure.

Is the measurement methods used telling the whole truth, thats everyone to decide by themselves. Atleast ASR has they're method based on the measurements all public which i think is the good starting point compared to the audio mumbojumbo we lived many decades.

Does these measurements show all the smaller nuances or ingredients that make the whole cake in the thousands of complex sin waves passing, i highly doubt but some say its all there able to measure with the measurement devices that are used or created with the currrent technology.

Is everything including the gears chosen unbiased? would be pretty naive to think so, but im sure some are.

With Grain of Salt.. all i have learnt.

 

[JoeStrummer69]

I honestly would like to see more reviews of the ultra-high end stuff here. It still amazes me how bad some is.

I just asked the question and had my head ripped off. Metaphorically you all are quite tame compared to others.
This site is so glitchy.

You don't have to take someone's word for it. There are a ton of reviews on this forum which show affordable hifi components can measure audible transparent.

If you want to question the validity of measurements there's this thread 'Master Thread: Are measurements Everything or Nothing?' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...are-measurements-everything-or-nothing.29062/

No I do have to take the testers word for it. Finger on the scale, ever? We do see that at Stereophile, ABS, PF.

 

[fpitas]

I just asked the question and had my head ripped off. Metaphorically you all are quite tame compared to others.
This site is so glitchy.

Yeah...you didn't have your head ripped off. They just told you to send stuff in for testing.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yes so called?
So it is to Amir's standard?
See how easy that was?
So it is just some bloke, they are not testing standards like I use, ANSI, ASTM, NLGI, ASME.

No you are not correct. Amir is not just some bloke. His tests do follow some of the standards most especially his speaker testing. If you understand something about the testing it is well considered and revealing. His speaker and electronic testing uses two of the top of the line world standards for his work.

 

[Koeitje]

Just curious as to why there are not more reviews of Top Echelon gear here.

Examples.

Sonnet. DAC
Circle Audio IA
AGD PA, Amp
Simaudio (Moon) IA, PA, Amp, DAC, CD, PPA.
Atmas-Spheres.
Bel Canto
VAC
Sonus faber.
QLN
Studio Electric
Fritz
Sonner
Norma Audio
Pathos,

Just to name a few. Most reviews seem to be of mass-produced mid to lower tier equipment.

Just buy it and send it to Amir, I'm sure he will test it.

 

[JoeStrummer69]

The standards as to whether something is good or not is how high fidelity the output is. Flat frequency response, low distortion, and low noise. There is plenty of gear that is simple audibly transparent without costing very much now. Unless gear offers useful features or maybe simply looks great or is a pleasure to use, there is no need for it to be expensive. In a few cases tested expensive gear isn't even particularly good. Amir will test anything you send him.

Once you know your $200 DAC sounds as good as your $2000 or $10,000 DAC there is nothing sonically to be gained by paying more. And yes the results are good enough for several products to indicate that. Items that have distortion at -120 db and noise lower than that. If they also have flat frequency response that is as good as it gets regardless of price. And before you wonder, plenty of people here have owned or heard and used some of that expensive gear. It isn't a case of a bunch of people who cannot afford or will not spend more than $200 and just wishing it was as good as it gets.

Now opinions and reviews done in most other parts of the internet are from uncontrolled, unmatched listening. You might wish to learn (or may already know) how prone to being fooled human hearing is in such conditions. Making such reviews and opinions somewhere between completely worthless and almost worthless. Carefully considered measurements and/or controlled listening comparisons are a more reliable consistent guide to what is really high fidelity.

So you all are doing listening tests to support the measurements? uncontrolled, unmatched listening

I do appreciate your answer and not calling me a name or two.

 

[Vacceo]

Yes so called?
So it is to Amir's standard?
See how easy that was?
So it is just some bloke, they are not testing standards like I use, ANSI, ASTM, NLGI, ASME.

There aren't industry-wide standards.

 

[Geert]

No I do have to take the testers word for it

Again, you don't need to take anyones word for it. If you have a trust issue, you can test your thresholds for noise and distortion yourself.